Lets create a world

[piranha]

We are getting closer to beta4 and there are some future plans that we have started the initial work for in beta4.
We are planing to divide the game into 3 races. Not in beta4, but we have made a few choices based on
the idea that we will have 3 separate races later.
In beta4 we have graphics which is from the human race. All city popups will be displayed
graphicaly as humans, but the idea is to bransch away into 3 separate sides with their own look. Current idea is: human based, underworld based and nature based. The idea is to make all three sides quite unique in how they are played.

This post is about inventing the warbarons world, the history and each side and their goals and ambitions.
The idea is to create a new world, not steal a world from another game or book.

We have written down some ideas, these are not set in stone.
First is a list of units on each side, this list is probably going to change several times depending on balancing and possible new units but its something to get an idea of what each race is about. Then there are some race concept thoughts to have something to start around.




Race Human
----------
1 Scout
2 Light inf
3 Light cav
3 Heavy infantry
4 Dwarf
4 Pikeman
5 Crusader
5 Giant
5 Heavy Cavalery
5 Battering ram
6 Catapult
6 Elephant
7 Mammoth
7 Wizard

Race Nature
-----------
3 Elf
4 Eagle
5 Minotaur
5 Sea serpent
6 Pegasi
6 Griffon
7 Sand worm
7 Medusa
9 Unicorn
10 Archon
10 Green dragon


Race Underworld
---------
1 Crow
2 Orc
4 Wolf rider
4 Scorpion
5 Spider
5 Yeti
7 Kraken
7 Ghost
7 Elemental
8 Demon
10 Devil
10 Red dragon

List of possible gameplay differences between races

Humans.
Can construct defence towers with their infantry units.
No flying armies.
Can use catapult / ram to take down cities.
Not as agile as other races but with the right combinations of units they can be hard to stop.


Nature
Several flying units make this race agile, not many cheap units make this race have fewer but better units.


Underworld
Tecnical race that have units that are really good att attack for example but weak when attacked.
Other units are fast and good at defence but weak attackers.


Ideas of how each race is governed.

Underworld (name?)
In general dwars dont like the other creatures of the underworld.
A race made up of quite self centered beings that have a hard time to work as friends. Have a long history of running into each other in the underworld with the result of bloody battles.
The underworld is ruled by the dwarfes who always fought the other underworld beings such as demons, krakens and orcs. But even if their hatred is big towards those whom
they share the underworld with their hatred towards the arogant people of the overworld is even bigger.
With time the dwarves have learned to enslave the other beings of the underworld in order to stand against the forces of the overworld.


Humans (name?)
--------------
Humans are greedy by nature and are always interested in conquer and ruling. Other beings are of litle importance unless there is something to gain.
Humans would probably do business with any side as long as there is something to earn.


Nature (Name?)
----------------
Governed by the elfs. A bit arrogant considering humans as untrustworthy and underworld as filthy/evil.

Any ideas are welcome.

It can be a drawn map of a world or part of a world.

It can be names for important persons in the world.

Historical years and decriptions of them.

Political systems used by the races.

It could be all of the above but for just a small part, like a description of an island in this world
to narrow down the scope.

Could be a description of a unit type. Like where unicorn come from and what a unicorn have on its mind.

It could be one of the game maps and a story around this map.


I'll start with a map that I painted showing some part of a this unnamed world. If anyone feel like putting cities, names or anything else on it just go ahead.

[LPhillips]

Are you going to leave some other options open to players? I mean, not necessarily complete freedom to create custom races and campaigns as in DLR, but perhaps the ability to make some choices about how to set up the game?

If this is the direction you want to go I'm ready to provide support. Writing plots and so on is fun. I have enough creativity that you might find some of my ideas useful, and I'm sure you will find similar support from other fans of your project. But I really do enjoy the ability to play the game on even footing with lots of options. This new approach could enhance the playing experience quite a bit depending on how you implement it, but fans of the Warlords-esque experience you have now would appreciate the ability to continue playing a game that keeps to this same tradition.

[LPhillips]

Are you going to leave some other options open to players? I mean, not necessarily complete freedom to create custom races and campaigns as in DLR, but perhaps the ability to make some choices about how to set up the game?

If this is the direction you want to go I'm ready to provide support. Writing plots and so on is fun. I have enough creativity that you might find some of my ideas useful, and I'm sure you will find similar support from other fans of your project. But I really do enjoy the ability to play the game on even footing with lots of options. This new approach could enhance the playing experience quite a bit depending on how you implement it, but fans of the Warlords-esque experience you have now would appreciate the ability to continue playing a game that highly resembles Warlords.

[SunsetScorpio]

I think that a possibility to play in the WLII-like game should be remained. At least, as an alternative choice.

[zorro]

only took a quick look, but I would already move dwarf to underworld and scout to nature

I imagine nature running around with tons of 8-stacks of elves or underworld with orcs losing to a well set up 1-turner human army.

The approach is nice, but that would require a totally different assignment of stats, since one turners are too strong as it is right now. Humans would beat the crap out of everyone else.

Non flying on the other hand would restrict humans to stay behind those mountains, making fair map making a pain. (even though I wish for a tile that cant be passed at all, but that should be the same for all)

[piranha]

Zorro: This thread is not about balancing this, units will be changed by beta4 and this race thing wont happen until later so the time to balance races will come later in its own thread. This is about creating a world where this stuff takes place.
B.t.w. I agree that the dwarf should move to underworld.

LPhilips: I think the concept of letting the community create their own stuff is a great and we will expand that part all the time. But the game should provide a playable experience with a story and world by default and it would be fun to do that together with the community. While we build the game we also expand the database and tools (often based upon ideas from our users) so when its possible for users to create their own thing we have already tried and tested it so it should be quite easy to be creative. Taking the map editor as an example, creating maps for beta2 was hard work. Now its still a bit time consuming but nowhere near beta2 standards. In beta4 you will have a bit more control in the editor and that will continue.
So I think with time you will be able to edit and create all the stuff you are interested in.

[KGB]

Piranha,

This thread probably belongs in it's own separate forum under something like World Design. Mostly because it will get large and/or require multiple topics to flesh it all out.

Also how you've categorized the units right now is by 'location' rather than by what would be termed 'race'. More typically units are grouped by alignment (good/neutral/evil) first to prevent Orcs/Dwarves or Elves/Medusa from working together. Then the alignments are broken down into subgroups either by race (mansize, giantsize, monster/creature, dragon, undead/celestial etc) or location (underground, city, wilderness) or some other measure.

Depending on how many units the game eventually ends up with I'd suggest more than 3 categories to group units into.

KGB

[zorro]

I have a world ready in the drawer, but I am hesitant to make it available. Gonna follow this thread for a while and see where it develops to.
That world has 12 unique countries based on terrain, a neutral place and lots of cities and areas where the different races are coming from. Several special places are elaborated. A raw map and many names already exist.

I agree with KGB about how factions should be designed and that if you start that now you should start with a greater plan, like a hexagon or octagon scheme.
I wanted to add that units do not need to be unique to a side/group/race. Most would work for more than one side at once.

[piranha]

Zorro

I understand that you are hesistant about sharing something like that.


KGB

I have created a separate forum folder. I have a feeling things will remain a bit quiet there, hopefully I'm wrong. We will continue work on beta4 and see what happens.
I know some units might not match very good. But most fantasy series have their own set of rules, for example I read a really good russian fantasy series (Chronicles of The Rift) where orc's are quite dumb and agressive (as usual) but still live in the same cities as humans taking work as mercenaries and such jobs.
You could also create a world where for example orcs are enslaved by dwarves.


I'ts a bit hard to know where to start with something like this, creating a world is a quite big. I think I'll leave it open and see if anything happens. We are focused on development so the game will go forward, but it would be fun with a world and story.

[kenc80]

yeah i could see where this will go but lets clear a question of grammar and spelling up real quickly here:

elf, elves, elvish, elven is correct
dwarf, dwarves, dwarvish, dwarven is correct

dwarfish and elfish and elfin are incorrect for elf and dwarf as plurals even though the spell checker recognizes it as correct. This is something Tolkien stressed when writing fantasy and I think we should adhere to his spellings.