XP implications on hero behavior

[kenc80]

Right I agree with the above. What bonuses stack, what bonuses apply to the entire stack, what bonuses only apply to the unit, where do those bonuses apply?

I think veterans of turn based strat games know what the command bonus entails but new folks might really need some explanation of what units get what and what is stacking. To be honest, throughout B2 I was confused on how the ally bonuses interacted. Ie Devil vs demon vs archon vs medusa who is negating what and how does it apply?

Another thread is talking about the differences between this and blizzard RTS games. The big benefit to this is that I dont have to sacrifice 2 or 3 (or more!) hours at a time to play. I dont have that kind of time nor do I want to invest that kind of time in a game. I like playing for 5 or 10 minutes at a pop but still playing against other people and this is the perfect game to do that with. I can have fun and have it not take over my life. That being said, I think the bonuses and units do need more explanation!

[KGB]

Pillager,

Yes, DLR's naming system made things *much* easier to understand so the fact that DLR heroes had Leadership, Morale and Fortify bonus's worked fine. So yeah, it's definitely a name problem. Of course Warlords 2/Warbarons also has stack bonus's that are only applying in certain situations (when attacking, when in certain terrain) which DLR did not have. You either had a Morale bonus or you didn't.

Kenc80,

Beta2 had a lot of bugs so it was extra confusing how the bonus's and negations interacted.

The bonus rules in War2/Warbarons/DLR are:

Bonus Types:
1) Individual unit bonus (like a Hv Infantry +1 in open, the Elementals +3 when attacking, the Wizard +3 attack vs Fliers)
2) Stack bonus (like a Pegasi +1 to stack, a 1 wolf rider +1 to stack in swamp)
3) Command bonus (the Hero command bonus)
4) Fortify bonus (city walls)

Bonus Rules:
1) Stack bonus, Command bonus and Fortify bonus add together. So a Pegasi and a Hero with +2 command gets +1 from the Pegasi stack bonus and +2 from the hero command bonus for total of +3. Similarly a Pegasi in a city with L3 walls gets +1 from the Pegasi stack bonus and +1 from the fortify bonus for a total of +2.
2) Like Stack/Command/Fortify bonus's only take the largest value. So a Hero with +1 command combined with a hero with +2 command only gives the largest value bonus because these are like bonus's for a total of +2. Similarly a Pegasi with a +1 stack bonus and and Elephant in the open with +2 stack bonus only gives the largest value bonus because these are like bonus's for a total of +2.
3) Stack + Command + Fortify bonus combined together is limited to +5.
4) Individual unit bonus's add to either a Stack bonus, a Command bonus or a Fortify bonus. So a Hv Infantry in the open with an Elephant gets +1 from it's individual bonus and +2 from the Elephant +2 stack bonus for a total of +3. Similarly a Hv Infantry in the open with a hero with +2 Command gets +1 from it's individual bonus and +2 from the Hero for a total of +3.
5) Individual bonus's are not capped by the +5. So a Hv Cavalry in the open with a Pegasi and a Hero with +4 command has a bonus of +2 in the open, +1 stack from the Pegasi and +4 command from the hero for a total of 2+1+4=+7.

KGB

[Pillager]

KGB,

In case 4 under 'bonus rules' shouldn't +2 command(hero) +2 stack in open (elephant) and +1 terrain bonus(Hv Inf) total up to +5?

[KGB]

Pillager

Yes it would.

I accidentally used the word Elephant in the second example in case 4 instead of hero. Fixed that now.

KGB

[Pillager]

My understanding concerning which unit negates what bonus is as follows....(someone please correct me if I'm wrong).....

Archon- Negates a hero's command bonus. There was a bug that made the archon negate your own hero's command bonus...not sure if that is fixed yet.

Devil- Negates stack bonuses from units. This includes: the dragon's +2, the pegasi's +1, the elephant's +2 (in open), The wolfrider's +1 (swamp and forest). There was some talk about making the devil negate the medusa's -1 not sure if that ever happened.

Unicorn- Negates personal terrain bonuses like the dwarf's +2 in mountains, and the heavy cavalry's +2 in open. 'City' is a terrain type, so the spider's +2 is also affected.

[kenc80]

Yes hopefully piranha or snotling can confirm this.

i believe Archon is still negating your own hero.

[piranha]

Pillager, that is correct.

Archon does not cancel your own hero any longer.

I always thought stack was strange name on a bonus.
If we change it to leadership it would make sense to more people who never played this game before.

I removed the unit list in warpedia because it was problematic to get it show things correct. I might try to get it back for the next version .

[KGB]

Piranha,

Don't change the Stack bonus to Leadership. It's the Heroes Command bonus that should be called Leadership because the hero is leading the armies. DLR changed the Stack bonus to Morale. You don't have to use Morale but it would be nice to use something other than Stack.

I do have 2 questions about canceling bonus's.

1) It was my understanding from conversations a while back that the Unicorn wasn't going to cancel City bonus's (Spiders +2). That was because it is much easier for the defender to pack a Devil/Unicorn into a city because you can hold 32 men compared to the attacker only having 8. So my question is does the Unicorn cancel those city bonus's or not? Because if it does you are back to the complaint in Beta2 (not my complaint) that it's easy to build L3 walls and pack a city with a Devil/Unicorn + gobs of men and it will be invincible.

2) Non-terrain unit bonus's like the Wizard/Elf Archer +3 vs fliers and the Elementals +3 when attacking are never canceled. Is this correct?

KGB

[Pillager]

Yes, leadership or command both work fine for the bonus provided by a hero. But are not appropriate names for the stack bonus. Morale would work for the stack bonus....the devil negating morale is fairly thematic.

A dragon increasing morale strikes me as slightly odd...but, I suppose I would feel fairly confident if I went into battle with a huge fire breathing reptile on my side.

I like the unicorn negating the spider/minotaur city bonus. It works both ways after all...If you don't allow the unicorn to negate city bonuses, then you can stack your city with spiders and a devil and not have to worry about your opponent bringing a unicorn along for the siege.

Maybe we need a siege unit that reduces all 3 levels of city defense. Perhaps a Treant? It could have slow movement (10), but move through woods at a cost of 1, get +2 strength in forests, be 4 turns to build, and a base strength of 6 or so.

[KGB]

Pillager,

I like the unicorn negating the spider/minotaur city bonus. It works both ways after all...If you don't allow the unicorn to negate city bonuses, then you can stack your city with spiders and a devil and not have to worry about your opponent bringing a unicorn along for the siege.

I don't care either way. I never attack such cities preferring to bypass them and force the defender to come out and meet me. If you don't I'll be happy to let you sit there till your gold runs out while I take your easier cities. I did that quite often in Beta2 much to the chagrin of many Warlords.

But I do recall quite a few warlords saying they hated the idea of cities being unconquerable due to having all bonus's negated and it being impossible to bring up slow moving siege units due to sallies by Hero stacks wiping out siege units before they could be used.

I just want to know for sure what the Unicorn does so I know if it's ever worth bringing against cities full of Spiders/Minotaurs/Gryffons.

Maybe we need a siege unit that reduces all 3 levels of city defense. Perhaps a Treant? It could have slow movement (10), but move through woods at a cost of 1, get +2 strength in forests, be 4 turns to build, and a base strength of 6 or so.

This was also suggested. A Siege Tower (ala DLR) was the unit envisioned. But I'd prefer a Treant that also gave a +1 Stack bonus in the Forest so it had 2 uses. Such a unit though needs more than 10 moves. It has to move 14 otherwise it will take too long to reach cities and be too easy to kill before it can be used.

KGB