Red Dragon tweak

[kenc80]

I think the Red Dragon should be +12 again.

There, I said it without hijacking someone else's thread.

He should reign supreme over all units and demand assassination.

Long live Big Red!

[KGB]

He should reign supreme over all units and demand assassination.

I like the fact Big Green b*itch slaps him in combat and that Big Pachyderm owns him in the open

Long live Big Green and Big Pachyderm!

KGB

P.S. You know I am kidding and that I am not opposed to such a change given the other balances that have come into place.

[Jeremy]

For a different opinion:

I don't. I think it should be +8 -- people would still build and play them.

[KGB]

Jeremy,

Not with their current stats (5 turns, 40 str, 2400 cost). For that price a +8 morale boost isn't worth it when a Pegasi gives +5 for half the cost and comes out almost 2x as often.

Even now the only time I ever get Big Red is as an ally. If I ever buy production for one it's in a 1v1 game on a map where you end up with 30+ cities so you can justify that expensive outlay and long production time.

KGB

[Jeremy]

I know some things have changed, but earlier, the strategy of do anything to start building early Red Dragons was very popular. We don't want to return to that situation. And +8 is not just 60% better than +5 -- it's considerably better than that, because morale doesn't stack.

[KGB]

Jeremy,

I know some things have changed, but earlier, the strategy of do anything to start building early Red Dragons was very popular.

That was based on their earlier cheaper cost (1800 vs 2400), how over priced many other units were at that time and the different skills units/heroes had. That made for fewer options to pursue so Big Red was the best choice.

Now it makes much less sense to get Big Red given that you usually only need a couple of them for your hero stacks and can fill out the rest with Pegasi. Thus getting them as allies is a lot more attractive option than buying production.

And +8 is not just 60% better than +5 -- it's considerably better than that, because morale doesn't stack.

+8 is not a flat 60% better than +5. In reality its a sliding scale based on unit strength. Ie 7 crows (not counting RD/Peg) at 5 strength going to 10 or 13 is an 77-23 win ratio (3-1) but 7 giants at 25 strength going to 30 or 33 is only 65-35 win ratio (3-2). As the strengths increase that ratio drops further.

KGB

[kenc80]

agree with KGB, the 5 turntime and cost will prevent it from every dominating like it did in beta2/3.

I just think the game needs a supreme unit. This is a late game unit. You dont see them in early/mid games unless someone gets a lucky ally offer. And those have been really toned down since beta3. And there are still no quests to net you 4 or 5 at a time so I dont think were going to go dragon crazy if he's an extra +2.