Fog Of War

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

The new Fog of War screen shot looks great. It's exactly what I envisioned it would look like.

Three things I wanted to mention after reading your blog

1) During a players turn, the server is going to have to store all the unfogged areas that happen due to unit movement. I know you mentioned having the users client update from the server. So I just wanted to remind you that if you don't complete your turn in a single play (ie browser crash, you come back to the turn later on esp when turns get longer etc) you need to make sure the server can properly update the client for all the unfogged areas that have occurred during the turn due to unit movement. So in essence you'll need to store whether each map square is in a fogged/unfogged state on the server during the entire turn. Once the turn is complete it can be reset for the next player.

2) From the screen shot it wasn't possible to tell if you'll be able to see the state of a city/ruin that is covered by fog. I'd expect to be able to tell who owns a city / whether a ruin is searched/unsearched even if that city/ruin is fogged over. The only thing fog should hide is units on the map in fogged areas (units in cities should be hidden/revealed by a different game option - see in cities).

3) When you say you plan to halt move what exactly do you mean. Are you saying a stack will stop moving if it sees an enemy stack revealed as the fog is lifted? Or are you saying a stack will stop moving only if an enemy stack is revealed directly blocking your movement path? I'd expect it to only halt moving in the latter case.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

Good to hear you like the style of FOW

1. We are planning something like this, yes.

2. We havent decided this yet. I was thinking about only revealing the state of a city/ruin when you see it. But maybe its better for the game if the state is always revealed. It will be easier to implement at least.
I´ll discuss with Piranha, but additional feedback is welcome.

3. My initial plan was to halt move as soon as something new came visible. Maybe it will be better flow for the game if we only halt move when something blocks the movementpath. Or maybe we will make it a setting where you choose if move should be halted based on blocking units or when something new is revealed.

[piranha]

Just got back from a few days off.

About #2. I have been thinking along the lines of starcraft when it comes to FOW that you dont see anything happen in the fog. So you would see all neutral castles but have to discover if they have been captured or razed.
Is there any reason to not make it like that (other than its easier to program ) ?

Seems to me that it will be more fun that you don't know exactly how everybody is doing, that you add another skill element to the game if you have to scout to know what is going on. I know that on a big map FFA it will be very hard to know how big each player is but I find that okay since when you do know (like now) it often result in all players trying to kill the strongest player all the time. In team games and 1v1 I think it will be a important skill factor which is something I think is good.

I'd like to hear the arguments why fow shouold only conseal units.


#3 Seems that making this a player setting is the best way to make everyone happy.

[KGB]

SnotlinG, Piranha,

#2: I'm looking at it from a prior Warlords point of view. In DLR/Warlords IV you always knew the state of all cities in terms of ownership (they are in fixed positions unlike Starcraft where you build bases where you want). Looking at it from a real world point of view, we may not know exactly what happening in an enemy country, but we certainly know where the borders are and what cities are where etc. Plus in theory traders/caravans/spies/rumors would arrive from other kingdoms as castles were conquered to let you know who owned what (ie your events window already gives this information out). So that's why I think you should know the state/ownership of cities/ruins in the fog.

Also sometimes you *want* to know where other players have expanded so you don't expand toward them in the early game (especially in team play). As it would be possible for 2 players to meet and start fighting on turns 3-5 due to accidentally heading toward each other while the rest of the players found neutrals due to luckily expanding away from their neighbors.

Now if you also add a hidden map option to go with fog of war, then you achieve what Piranha described where you can't be sure which way a player has expanded until you reveal the hidden map.

Incidentally, you can always go to the reports menu to see how big/strong any other player is.

#3: It sort of defeats some of the purpose of fog of war if you auto stop a unit/stack when it reveals any enemy stack. Plus it will get annoying if you end up revealing multiple units/stacks when you are trying to scout and having your unit stop moving over and over again each time a new unit/stack appears.

A game option certainly is worth while adding here to allow either method to be used.

KGB