calc off

[KGB]

Yeah they should have been 57 strength not 67 strength. The AA bonus is still coming on top of everything else and not being capped as part of the 30. Unless you were fighting in the woods and then 67 would be right for them.

KGB

[kenc80]

correct they were in the woods.


So the elves AA stacks with the AA ring on top of the +30. +30+10+10 = 50 so 17+50 = 67STR elves.

I think its really important that that point is clarified whenever the wiki is updated for the next version that terrain & AA are not capped and only morale/leadership/chaos/fear are capped.


Hope Maze isn't reading this

[KGB]

Your Elves were:

Str 12 +5 bless, +10 woods, +10 AA (their AA) = 37 individual strength

Your Paladin hero was:

+16 Leadership, +6 Shield, +8 Grandfather = 30 bonus

Total 67 strength. The AA ring never factors into play here so all is as it should be. In fact you should be giving that ring to another hero stack.

KGB

[kenc80]

I'm keeping the ring because I have to attack as well as defend. plus narya should stack on top of the +30. right?

[LPhillips]

I'm keeping the ring because I have to attack as well as defend. plus narya should stack on top of the +30. right?

Nope. Narya is a +AA Leadership bonus. Leadership is capped at +30, so if it did stack then it would be a bug.

It's really +16+6+8+12 where fliers are concerned, capped at +30. But I don't know if all that works as it should anyway. If so, then a Grand Archon should only reduce you to +26. Given the Ambush bonus you have and his apparent flier production, Maze is thoroughly screwed

[KGB]

No it should not stack. If it did then your elves would have fought at 75 strength.

The max leadership bonus is 30. The AA bonus from Narya and other items is considered a leadership bonus and subject to the 30 cap. In the next version I hope the AA bonus from items (or heroes) is put into it's own bonus category.

KGB

[kenc80]

gosh, I thought I understood this bonus stuff but I always get confused when I get in these situations. Thanks for the clarification.

I wonder if they will pull AA out of leadership in the next version.

[piranha]

We have not placed AA in it's own category yet. Are you sure its a good idea? There wont be any counter for powerful heroes with anti air. What is the good side of moving AA to its own category?

[KGB]

Piranha,

1) You don't have to create separate AA items with a Chaos bonus. Right now AA items are biased towards heroes with leadership (Pally, HL, Valk). This matters because if a high level DK (or even Assassin) with say 9-12 Chaos finds an AA item vs a Pally/HL/Valk with the equivalent bonus an Archon can remove all bonus from the DK (Assassin) but only some from the other heroes.
2) You can create new future heroes like say a Ranger with AA skills instead of Leaders/Chaos/Grp Ambush. Since you have a plan to re-do the heroes (we've yet to see how) I am hoping that heroes will have a couple of group skills (move, leader, chaos, ambush etc) to spend points on so all heroes don't look the same. This would give another skill category.
3) It makes explaining the Leaders/Chaos etc bonus's easier in the Wiki if you can put AA into it's own category like Attack/Defend bonus's rather than making it part of Leadership where it doesn't quite make as much sense.

There is already a natural balance to AA. It's called ground troops Besides you can always reduce the AA value slightly on an item if it proves to be too good but I doubt that will be the case since it's such a specialty item.

KGB

[Maze]

correct they were in the woods.


So the elves AA stacks with the AA ring on top of the +30. +30+10+10 = 50 so 17+50 = 67STR elves.

I think its really important that that point is clarified whenever the wiki is updated for the next version that terrain & AA are not capped and only morale/leadership/chaos/fear are capped.


Hope Maze isn't reading this

Didn't read this indeed during the game but realized something was "weird" with the capping. However, besides the theoretical discussion in this threat, experiencing it on the field, come on, you must admit it was ... fun! What's wrong with having elves fighting at 67 or even 75? The fact that they cost less (money- and production time-wise)? Nah, I like the flavour of these kind of "underdog becomes specialist killer" elements. It could have killed my "oh so precious" hero, it could have flipped the balance, it could have ... well, from the moment I discovered this new race of superpower elves, I focused and put my priorities on killing their magic potion.

Hadesha is still a demons map, supported by a couple of ghost and serpent cities + 1 RD + 1 GD on attack and gryphons for city defense + if possible attack. Less monotonous than before, but it's still "demons rule". You can agree or have another opinion from slightly disagreeing to completely disagreeing but one thing is for sure: ground units are no part of mid or late game on Hadesha. Except from in this kind of situations, elves being cheap but proud superpowered specialists on their terrain.

This said, good game! After you surrendered the game turned into countdown (-up) to reaching the 80% ownership.