calc off

[kenc80]

Ok not sure if this is a bug or I'm doing my math wrong.

I have a stack in game # 27876:

2 Green Dragons/4 Ghosts/1Pegasus/1Hero Paladin

Pegasus +5 Morale
Hero Paladin +13 Leadership
Grandfather +8
Narya +10 to flyers

So I just attacked an eagle. By my count, I should be giving 5+13+8+10=+36.

However, my whole stack is only seeing +30. Is this a bug or a max bonus cap feature?

Interestingly, my mouseover unit is showing:
+31 Leadership Anti-Air
+5 Morale
+21 Leadership

for a total bonus of again, only 30.

Thoughts? It seems I should be +36 or at least +31 against the eagle. I'm not good at the whole attach screenshot thing.

Apologies if this has been previously covered....


Thanks,


Ken

[MrBofa]

I agree with Ken, something is off. The same effects happen with a Super DK stack, you could have -33 to a stack but only so much is calculated. Best why I have tested this is a big map with lots of ruins, race your heroes to the ruins against AI that way your hero can have a lot of items.


Thanks,

[Maze]

Bonuses are capped at +30 and -25.

[piranha]

Bonuses are caped and it's at 30 and -15. It shows both leadership with anti and and without since some units may be flying and some not. Do you have any suggestions how to mak it easier to understand when there are several bonuses in play? I have added a new icon that is displayed when a bonus is caped in the next version.

[MrBofa]

Let's take a Mino in a city no walls for example, and you are minus 25 on it from hero, have a unicorn, no city bonus, then have a Medusa, why is the min battle 10 on some units versus a 5 on others ? Is there a factor I overlooked ?

[kenc80]

Well I think the better debate is to define and then redefine the heirarchy of bonuses

In Order:
Swarm
Terrain
Attack/Defend
Morale/Fear
Hero Leadership/Chaos
Archon/Negate
Item bonus (In my opinion, this should be applied last, after archon) ie:a magic sword should still be powerful in the presence of an archon.

Piranha I do agree that the mouseover guide is unclear. The new button is very helpful for situational understanding. If antiair is the only tricky part of this, I might just show the net or capped bonus (Anti-Air) net cap (ground units)
And then maybe an icon that shows when the cap is in place. So maybe you show the +37 or whatever and then have it say:

+37 (Air)
+32 (Ground)

Maybe have a star in place when the max is above 30.

Ugh ok maybe that wasnt much help!

[KGB]

KenC80,

Don't forget somewhere in that list lies the boat limitations on strength. And of course city walls/siege.

I agree the game definitely needs a hierarchy of bonus order that shows the order in which they are applied (including any limitations).

Piranha,

What I would do is show the bonus's in the order the game is calculating them. Assuming the game is doing individual bonus's first followed by stack bonus's (like in KenC's example) then group the individual unit bonus's first (top) followed by the stack bonus's second (below). So you would see something like the following on mouse over:

Strength: #

Individual: #
Terrain: #
Swarm: #
Attack/Defend: #

Stack: #
Walls/Siege: #
Morale/Fear: #
Leadership/Chaos: #

Ship Cap: #

Total: #



Where ever I showed a # you put in brackets the full calculation for that line. So for a Spider in a City with +5 walls vs a Unicorn you would show on mouse over of the spider:

Strength: 20

Individual: 10 (10 terrain symbol, 0 swarm symbol, 0 attack/defend symbol)
Terrain: 10 (20 city symbol - 10 negate symbol)
Swarm: 0
Attack/Defend: 0

Stack: 5 (5 wall symbol - Capped icon if needed)
Walls/Siege: 5 (5 wall symbol)
Morale/Fear: 0
Leadership/Chaos: 0

Ship Cap: N/A

Total: 35 (20 strength, 10 individual, 5 stack - Capped icon if needed for 75 strength OR ship cap icon when on ship)

For situational bonus's like Anti-Air you can show 2 numbers on the Stack: and Leadership: lines, with and without the bonus. In truth those are really hard to convey in a manner than makes sense since they often don't come into play at all in a battle.

KGB

[kenc80]

good point, I forgot siege and boat. I dont think boat is necessary as that can be defined on the ship popup.

In order of application:
Swarm
Terrain
Anti-Air
Siege/Walls
Attack/Defend
Morale/Fear
Hero Leadership/Chaos
Archon/Negate
Items

Mouseover, per KGB:

Strength: #

Individual: #
Terrain: #
Swarm: #
Attack/Defend: #

Stack: #
Walls/Siege: #
Morale/Fear: #
Leadership/Chaos: #

Ship: #

Total: #

Individual: # - by individual you mean base strength right?
Terrain: #
Anti-Air: #
Swarm: #
Attack/Defend: #

Stack: #
Walls/Siege: #
Morale/Fear: #
Leadership/Chaos: #

Ship: # I'd take this out (too confusing) or hide this along with any other bonuses with zeroes.

Total: # should show gross total then 30 with cap symbol if applicable. this is complicated. maybe unnecessary.

I do think its worth knowing the heirarchy of bonuses though. Also, I am referring to the post-battle mouseover. not the ingame mouseover.

[KGB]

Individual: # - by individual you mean base strength right?

No. Individual is the sum of Terrain+Swarm+Attack/Defend just as Stack is the sum of Walls/Siege, Morale/Fear, Leadership/Chaos. Strength is the individual unit strength. I bolded those so to indicate they were the sum's of what was under them.

Ship: # I'd take this out (too confusing) or hide this along with any other bonuses with zeroes.

That makes sense. Especially since it can be replaced with a Ship Cap icon in the Total field.

Total: # should show gross total then 30 with cap symbol if applicable. this is complicated. maybe unnecessary.

You definitely need this + cap symbols. This how you show a 25 strength Giant capped at 15 on a barge. It would show Total: 15 (25 individual - Ship cap symbol). Or imagine a Lt Infantry facing a DK with 10 Chaos. The total field would show Total: 5 (10 individual, -10 stack - Strength cap icon)

KGB

[kenc80]

I think there is value in this conversation and the battle screen mouseovers because I think a lot of the learning for new players takes place when they look at this screen. Having a clear explanation of each units strength and applied and affected bonuses would be of value.

I would also recommend the warpedia have a little paragraph or chart showing the order of bonuses and which is applied when.