Hero water/land issue

[KGB]

In one of my games (just now finished) I attacked one of my opponents heroes that was flying on a Pegasi on the shoreline. Since the Hero/Pegasi were on the shoreline I had to attack with boats since land units can't attack on the shoreline.

I killed the Pegasi but not the hero. My opponent had no other nearby boats or flying units so I did not waste any more units against the hero (L10 so he was very strong) assuming he would drown on his next turn. Instead to my surprise he lived because on my next turn he was leading a full stack against me on land.

I talked to my opponent and he said he was able to just walk the hero onto land normally. Obviously what's happened is that the game is treating the hero as a land unit because he's flying. So because he was on the shore and there was land squares next to him the movement path was considered legitimate. Obviously this is not legitimate because technically he was not flying anymore due to the loss of his mount so he should have drowned/fallen to his death.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

This is intended behavior. A hero who´s transporting boat/flying unit is slain and is on the shore is considered beeing able to rescue himself onto land. If he is left alone in water he will drown.
This can ofcourse be easily changed, but I kind of like the idea of the hero just managing to swim to the shore and rescue himself onto land again

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

But this allows players to abuse the privilege of flying so they can greatly mitigate the chance of death.

Now I will always fly my heroes along the shoreline whenever possible. I am 100% safe from land attacks. Should a boat attack me I don't have to fear drowning if I lose my mount because I can just hop back on shore.

I think the hero should die here just the same as he'd die in the middle of the water.

Alternatively, I'd like to adopt the DLR rules (something I mentioned a couple of months ago) where by adjacent units on the shore/water can attack each other.

but I kind of like the idea of the hero just managing to swim to the shore and rescue himself onto land again.

If this is the case, why do other units need a port to exit the water? Why can't they just swim to shore anywhere they please. Requiring a port to enter the water makes sense but by your logic you should be able to exit anywhere and swim to shore (which is how Warlords worked).

Not to mention that when regular armies convert to land units it uses up all their moves. Shouldn't swimming to shore do the same?

KGB

[SnotlinG]

Well, checking my old code there is a few reasons for this

- The check for drowning heroes happens at the end of your turn. I.e. if you get your heroes mount killed in the enemies turn, you should get at least 1 chance to resque your hero (with boat or flyer).

- This said, the checks for moment only checks the square you move to, so a landunit on a shore can legally move onto the land. So I would need to add extra checks to the move functionality otherwise.

- Moving your hero in water onto a shore is not always possible, and it will cost you 2 movepoints every time also. (if he is grouped with a boat he can move at a cost of 1 on water)

- The hero is an exception, if he has entered water using a flying mount (or via jumping on a boat at a bridge for example), he is a Landunit, and as such he dont have to pay the cost for converting back.

[KGB]

- This said, the checks for moment only checks the square you move to, so a landunit on a shore can legally move onto the land. So I would need to add extra checks to the move functionality otherwise.

This is the missing check that I consider to be the bug.

The alternative to all this if it's a pain to fix is to just remove all the drowning code entirely. If the heroes mount dies over water just convert the hero to a boat immediately. I don't see a problem with that and it simplifies things greatly from a coding/bug point of view

KGB

[Masterdisaster]

- This said, the checks for moment only checks the square you move to, so a landunit on a shore can legally move onto the land. So I would need to add extra checks to the move functionality otherwise.

This is the missing check that I consider to be the bug.

The alternative to all this if it's a pain to fix is to just remove all the drowning code entirely. If the heroes mount dies over water just convert the hero to a boat immediately. I don't see a problem with that and it simplifies things greatly from a coding/bug point of view

KGB

That's a bad idea imo. That will make it even less risky to use a bat and a hero to cross large bodies of water.

[KGB]

Ah, but the hero doesn't get any of his bonus's when he is in boat form. He only get them in flying form.

So the conversion to boat would cost him his bonus's and turn him into a 4 strength unit easily able to be killed. Thus there is still a large risk to flying over water.

KGB

[Masterdisaster]

Let me quote the warpedia inside the game.

"When fighting on water the base strength is capped at STR 4 for all land units, group bonuses will still apply for land units. "

I could be wrong, but my interpretation is that the hero does get his command bonus in boat form. Assuming all flying units which accompanied him are dead, the hero is of comparable strength whether he is in a boat or not. That is, unless he is of a very high level.

Also, it is really unrealistic to assume the hero found a boat in the middle of an ocean. If it isn't to difficult to code, I would suggest that the hero loses all his movepoints if he swims to the shore. This may be a good compromise.

Btw, how can a single bat CARRY 7 heroes anyways?

[KGB]

"When fighting on water the base strength is capped at STR 4 for all land units, group bonuses will still apply for land units. "

I could be wrong, but my interpretation is that the hero does get his command bonus in boat form. Assuming all flying units which accompanied him are dead, the hero is of comparable strength whether he is in a boat or not. That is, unless he is of a very high level.

I believe the Warpedia is currently out of date/confusing. Land units don't get their bonus's in the water. By that I mean a Devil does not give the +1 stack bonus in the water. But land units *can benefit* from such bonus's if they are available. For example a Pegasi retains it's +1 stack bonus on the water. This is why you want to make sure your hero is flying so that it retains it's bonus on the water.

Btw, how can a single bat CARRY 7 heroes anyways?

LOL. I think it's not a single bat but is rather a large group of bats.

Personally I've never thought a hero should be able to ride on a bat. When I did the Warlords IV patches I coded it so that heroes could only fly on legitimate flying mounts (Dragons, Pegasi, Gryffon etc) rather than any flying unit.

KGB