by LPhillips » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:10 am
Piranha, at 8 swarm it definitely isn't worth adding them.
I missed the +3 in Swamp. I just saw 8>11>14>17. I prefer they just start at 6 and that the falloff be 4 as that makes losing one more punishing. Also, any move bonus is unnecessary. I saw that but it didn't bother me. In retrospect, they shouldn't have any move bonus. I don't see these guys becoming the complete go-to unit. Maybe we need to find the right price, but with no terrain bonuses they aren't that strong. Even if we find after some testing that they need to be weaker, they'll never be the go-to unit. One has to remember that production centers are limited, funds are more ample than ever, and units are cheaper than ever. If I apply it to my current Bull Run match, I'd have these guys in exactly zero of my cities. I'd rather have Heavy Cavalry production in one than these guys in two. They're not fast enough to keep up with either type of Cavalry, and they're not strong enough to justify filling any of my city production.
First, I don't believe they will upstage other infantry because they make crappy city defenders until maxed. If you worry about them upstaging Heavy Infantry then give them a steep upkeep. Let them be the true swarm unit: attack, attack, attack, can't afford to keep them on defense (4 upkeep minimum) That puts them at 4x4=16 upkeep to defend a city at full strength. Any other infantry unit can be deployed singly or in pairs and effectively defend non-frontline cities for less than half that cost.
Second, they will always fall short of true terrain-specific units. Elves have 22 strength in Forest, making them clearly superior. Yes, their anti-air capability is worth the cost. If not, we'd all be whining about them already. Light Cavalry are obviously superior in movement, vision, and convenience. You won't use these Goblins to expand because the swarm supply can't keep up with your heroes. You'd be fighting at 10 strength or worse almost always, or missing 1 of every 3 movement points waiting on reinforcements.
Third, they don't stay at max strength. They're swarmers, meaning that if you drop their number below 4 you begin to cut their strength severely. No one can employ a prolonged attack with them for this reason. They're weaker than any other terrain-specific one-turn unit (KGB, you can't compare Dwarves at 17.5 instead of 22.5, or we'd all bitch about Heavy Infantry being 15 and 50% faster). The weakest is the Orc (which needs to go back to 10, but still has a statistical advantage in Swamp).
Where is the problem here? I don't see any. 250 seems steep, but it's not too terrible. I'd compromise at 225. Again, they've no advantages over any specialized infantry unit whatsoever, no matter what their employment. Their only advantage is the ability to function in any given terrain better than units that are not specialized to that terrain. The only pitfall here would be giving them low upkeep so that they could be employed on defense without adequate sacrifice.
