Starting production for capitols

[Versace]

I would like to see capitols having production from the start

1 random 1 turn unit
1 random 2 turn unit
1 random 3 turn unit

Map makers could also set any unit as fixed or leave some units out from the random lottery, for example set the 1 turn unit fixed as an elf if you start in forest. You would always start with one of each of those units as your starting stack.

It would always be exciting to see what you will get and it would affect your hero choices and expansion strategy. There would be some luck element there but not too much to ruin or make anyone's game.

[magian]

I do (sort of) like this idea, but players may end up with production that makes no sense for the terrain they start in. That could give a pretty large advantage to a player that gets lucky with his starting production.

You can set capitol production if you make a scenario map. I don't think scenarios can be ladder maps though..which is unfortunate IMO. I'm not sure why the distinction between scenario and regular map was deemed necessary.

[Versace]

I think all of the 3 turn units are useful in any terrain. The slow ones -elemental, sandworm, catapult, gryphon and medusa are great for taking down cities and the rest are fast at the minimum.

Worst two I quess would be archon and demon.

[Versace]

If it is not too hard to code you could have the 1 turn unit always be such that it suits the surrounding tiles. Light cavalry if a lot of grassland, elf if forest, dwarf if mountains and orc if swamp.

[KGB]

Why introduce more luck into the game?

The fact players buy their production in the capitol is the exact definition of skill/strategy. You get exactly what you want for the type of game you plan to play.

In fact I'd like things to go further in that regard and allow players to select their starting armies from a pool of points like DLR did. So that you could opt for only a few powerful units or masses of cheaper/weaker ones or something in between. This would especially help in those games where you are surrounded by tough terrain and end up with units that can't move in it (think Swamp terrain with starting Dwarf units).

KGB

[magian]

I agree with you KGB,

The same units are not always of equal value if the starting positions are located in different terrain types.

[Versace]

Even if the 1 unit production is not set by the terrain close by, it is not a biggie if you have dwarves while in swamp territory. You will have one useless 1 turn unit in the beginning, you are obviously not producing those dwarves anyway.

All 3 turn units are good enough and this might make your starting choices look a little different than usual, bringing more interest to the game. The starting units are already random so there is not that much more luck added.

Adapting your starting strategy to what you have is a skill too.

I like the excitement of seeing what your capitol produces and thinking about which way to go accordingly. As of now it seems to me that the dominant strategy is producing those boring scouts in the first turns as you want all the money spent on heroes.

[magian]

All lvl 3 units have their roll. However, at the start of the game you don't need specialty units, you need city attackers. If I start with spiders and pegasi, and you start with eagles and archons, I will have an appreciable advantage. Likewise, elementals will be far more useful than elephants in the early game.

[Versace]

You have 1/11 chance to get archon and 1/10 chance of getting an eagle. Not counting kraken and snake in. So less than 1% to get that combo. Even then the game is far from over, at least they both fly and are fast so they can move together and carry the hero. More likely to cripple your game by losing a 10ul hero in a ruin and rest of your good units in some 80% battle vs a neutral in the first turns.

If people are are so allergic to small luck factors then KGB's system is indeed the best. I actually do not mind that at all, I think it is better than how it is now.

[Chazar]

If people are are so allergic to small luck factors ...

No, small luck is fine, the problem is that your suggestion introduces a massively huge luck factor in my opinion as well!

Terrain is an important factor, the defenders of the neighboring neutrals is a factor, the availablity of ruins is a factor (whether I buy an expensive unit or a cheap unit instead, hoping for a second hero). The ability to read the map correctly in the first turn and buying production accordingly is a big factor.

However, I do like the direction your suggestion was aiming. I don't like it that so much is decided in the very first turn alone. So I agree with magian here:

I do (sort of) like this idea, but ...

You can set capitol production if you make a scenario map. I don't think scenarios can be ladder maps though..which is unfortunate IMO. I'm not sure why the distinction between scenario and regular map was deemed necessary.

I don't like this separation between ladder and scenario either: it robs the game of so many good ideas! If a scenario map is deemed to be fair and ladder-able by several top-ladder players, then why not add it to the ladder pool? Maybe we should have a ladder-council.

I think the impact of the first turn could be somewhat reduced if map creators could also allow 3 pre-owned cities in ladder maps, as they are already allowed in scenario maps. Some of them (but not all) could then have pre-set or random production.