Ladder Point Adjustment

[SnotlinG]

We are working on a system that will adjust the ladderpoints based on average number of turns per laddergame on a map, divided into 3 categories: 1v1, FFA and TEAM.
It will probably take a few days before we can launch it though since we need to gather some data for the maps

[Igor]

Right now its like this:

mapsize < 5000 k = 16;
mapsize >= 5000 && mapsize < 7500 k = 22;
mapsize >= 7500 && mapsize < 10000 k = 28;
mapsize >= 10000 && mapsize < 15000 k = 34;
mapsize >= 15000 && mapsize < 20000 k = 40;
mapsize >= 20000 && mapsize < 25000 k = 46;
mapsize >= 25000 k = 52;

So the constant K is bigger when you play on a bigger map. There are some problems with having this. One is that you can make a big map with water around the center of the map, some popular 1v1 maps could be 50x50 or at least 75x75 (if it existed) but are 100x100.

If you use number of turns too it will affect gameplay as it means you don't want to use a fast attack strategy because it gives you less points, but a fast attack strategy is sacrificing expansion for pressing the opponent so I don't think you should be punished for aggressive gameplay.

I guess an even more advanced formula could be created where we measure the average number of turns it takes to play a map and have a gradual K value depending on that. That way a map would be locked to the number of turns it takes to play it instead of size or the number of turns it took on one game. Still could be abused by playing several games where you just click end turn a bunch of times before surrendering. Still might be the best idea so far.

Some maps can have big size, but can contain mostly water, hills and other terrains, but very few cities.
Other maps, which have average or small size, can have more cities than big-size maps.
I think that difficulties in getting a win depend, first of all, on number of cities: more cities give more time to conquer 80% of them to win.
"K" might depend on number of cities instead of map size.

[piranha]

Igor its now depending on how many turns it takes on an average to complete the map. Check this page: http://www.warbarons.com/wiki/ladder

[Igor]

Where can I see table of average time to complete every map?

[Igor]

In adress, shown above, I have discovered this:
K value based on average number of turns it takes to complete a game on the map.
Turns > 0, K=8
Turns > 8, K=12
Turns > 13, K=16
Turns > 18, K=22
Turns > 22, K=28
Turns > 30, K=34
Turns > 35, K=40
Turns > 40, K=46
Turns > 45, K=52

Probably somebody already completed all ladder maps to count, how many turns it takes.
If it's true, I would like to know how many turns it takes to complete every map, to see what size of "K" is applied to each map. Hope this is not a secret. So, my question shown above and below

Where can I see table of average time to complete every map?

[KGB]

Igor,

I think it hasn't been published yet. I recall Piranha saying that they need a certain number of games to be completed to get an idea of what the average is for a map. Obviously on some popular 50x maps that will happen quickly and on others it might take a while (large maps not played a lot).

KGB

[Igor]

I know that it is not published before today, that is the reason of my question.
I think that average number of turns to complete each map is already known, because without this data it couldn't be possible to use new system of "K".
So I see my question is able to be answered.
Map size (or number of cities) is clear for everybody. I think it is logical to make clear what data of average turns to complete maps is used for new "K".
Now it is a "war secret" of little group of players who completed maps for defining number of turns

[LPhillips]

It would be nice to have a published edition somewhere, but it would probably take a lot of work to maintain.

It's easy enough to use common sense to see what maps will net you points. Obviously Hammer Mountain gets 4-8 points, as I have seen in the reports. This is satisfying, as my 20+ turn games are netting 20-30, and people are no longer completing half a dozen games a day in ~6 turns for 18 points each. Mountain Vale has been netting around 32 to 36; Burning Ice seems to come in above 24 right now. It's all fairly predictable. Is there some pressing need for a published list at the moment, especially while they are in the middle of establishing the point values?

[SnotlinG]

Where can I see table of average time to complete every map?

The average turntime of the maps are changing all the time, due to more and more games played, which is good.
All maps that have passed a certain number of completed laddergames will be using this average turntime instead of mapsize.
The turntime per map will be shown soon, it wont be a secret. Currently we just need to get the code for showing this into place, but its not on the top of the prioritylist but will come soon

[Igor]

I assumed that there could be techical problems to open the data, heh...
These data are needed to see and understand, what map is more interesting to get ladder points on it without spending a time and/or ladder points to have training game. That could be especially nice for ones who have many current games.
Wish you to get necessary code