Additional Army/Ally Types

[Moonknight]

Any thoughts to adding more types of allies into the game? Ones I'd suggest: Treants, Cave Worms, Eagles (with high movement), Liches (or some type of skeleton unit), Paladins, Ice Guards...Moonknights!

Edit...it was Moonguards wasn't it? Along with Iceguards and Slayer Knights! Oh and Trolls and Undead Beasts are musts as well!!

[Moonknight]

In addition to additional army types, will there be more hero types? And maybe we shouldn't be able to select the kind that comes to us (after the first turn).

Thief, Priest, Necromancer, Wizard (I would vote to have Wizards be heroes and not a production type), Ranger, General, Warrior, Barbarian, etc. Maybe we can come up with some more creative ones, but I definitely like the thief/burglar one, maybe that can come more into play when items are added into beta4.

Is it bad that I'm talking to myself on here

[piranha]

We have to buy the graphics for new units so we want complete units that makes sense.

I mean I could name 30 really cool creatures / professions and say, lets make them. But there is no point of having 5 units that are the same unit with different name and graphic.

We are open for new ideas, we have one more unit drawn for us that we haven't really figured out what to do with. Its a crusader (without horse) that looks really cool. One of the coolest looking units that we have.
Just need to come up with some good idea for him. We could put him in the game for beta4.

Any ideas?

We have thought about two more units that could make sense.
1. Flying unit that is in the 450-900 price range, about 2-4 STR with anti air bonus and 2 turns build time. A unit that could be used to hunt other flying units.
2. Some sort of unit that are given a bonus on water.

I've also been thinking about units that doesn't have to fight the unit next in line but that could target another unit in the enemy stack. However it seems like it will be hard to make it logical and easy to use. Perhaps units the shoots could target the second unit in line if its a flying unit or something like that.

[Pillager]

A crusader is a bit tricky... don't want to step on the heroes' toes...maybe an attack bonus, or a +1 stack bonus when attacking?

A flyer killer is easier. An eagle would seem to fit the bill, seeing as they kill other birds on the wing. However you already changed the bat to a crow, and you don't want to overplay the bird card. Maybe an air elemental type creature, like a Sylph or Afrit?

A Unit with a bonus in water? If it flies, a sea drake....if it mucks around in boats, a Reaver (barbaric dude with horned helmet). However, I have always wanted to see swimming/amphibious units in warlords...they could enter coast and sea hexes at any location (not restricted by a port) and would move in water like a boat (movecost 1). This would open the door for tritons (1 turn swimmer, strength 2, +2 in water) all the way up to the dreaded Kraken. Sea serpents, giant crabs, water elementals, and dragon turtles are some other fun options for this.

[KGB]

Piranha,

We are open for new ideas, we have one more unit drawn for us that we haven't really figured out what to do with. Its a crusader (without horse) that looks really cool. One of the coolest looking units that we have.
Just need to come up with some good idea for him. We could put him in the game for beta4.

You thinking of the Crusader as a hero or a unit? Another hero might be the most useful thing to have at this point. Especially if you put in more hero skills that I mentioned in another post. That would allow you to take advantage of those skills.

1. Flying unit that is in the 450-900 price range, about 2-4 STR with anti air bonus and 2 turns build time. A unit that could be used to hunt other flying units.

This type of unit was added to DLR by the players (A PegaCentaur) as part of a bonus package of units. It's surprisingly useful but not over powering. So yeah this kind of unit has a place at 2 turns, 3 strength, 16 moves. You don't want it any stronger or else it will be too easy to use it against cities as a flying attacker.

2. Some sort of unit that are given a bonus on water.

Yes please. A 1 turn, 2 strength, 16 move Pirate or a 3 turn, 6 strength, 14 move Sea Serpent. Either one should come with a +2 water combat bonus.

I'd add that the game still needs a true Desert unit. Not just the Elemental getting a move bonus on the Desert. I still want to lobby for a 3 turn, 6 strength, 16 move, desert move bonus Sand Worm that has the same skill as the Demon (ignores City walls) due to burrowing under ground. That would free up the Demon to get another new yet to be determined skill.

I've also been thinking about units that doesn't have to fight the unit next in line but that could target another unit in the enemy stack. However it seems like it will be hard to make it logical and easy to use. Perhaps units the shoots could target the second unit in line if its a flying unit or something like that.

I think that's going to be way to hard for players to understand / use. When you start down that path you are starting down the tactical combat path. Warlords IV did this in it's tactical combat screen.

KGB

[Pillager]

Piranha,

As far as a crusader hero goes, I don't think there is much need for another holy knight Hero (the Paladin has that angle covered).

If you do end up making the naval unit a pirate, please don't make it an eye patch wearing, pistol wielding anachronism.

[Jahukott]

Honestly I like flying units being reserved for high end only (apart from the bat/hawk); a sea unit sounds great though.

[Moonknight]

I agree with Jahukott in that I like the cheap 'spying' type flying crow and then the very expensive pegasus and griffon and allies. If there was an in between cost flying unit, I think I'd produce it all the time personally. What I wouldn't mind is an Eagle that costs upwards to where the Pegasus is, but has a very large movement, basically a beafed up crow. That kind of makes the Wizard useless though (who I think should be a Hero).

I'm still fairly new on here, and I thank all who are involved in making this website available b/c it is awesome.

A question I have is about hit points. It appears that all the units have a standard 2 hit points (at least all the ones I've worked with so far). Why is that? That would be a huge way to differentiate unit types and have the ability to add more. Also, it would allow the addition of temples that increase hit points by 1.

I like the idea of some type of giant snake/serpent/gator (something that makes sense to be on land still) who gets bonus attack in the sea (maybe in swamp land as well?). They could be riding alongside the boat instead of having to be in the boat (not actually shown on the map this way), kind of like flyers.

I would not mind having the Crusader as another Hero option. I'm sure there is someway to differentiate him from the Paladin.

Also like the idea about a true desert unit, I'd suggest sand wyrm or scorpion.

Another idea about heroes, maybe learning different things cost differently based on the hero type? Like the Valkyrie can increase movement at a cheaper amount, or the Deathknight can increase strength at a cheaper amount, so on.

[KGB]

I agree with Pillager that there definitely does not need to be a Paladin AND Crusader hero.

I meant if you use the Crusader hero the Paladin hero can become something else. His picture doesn't look *that* much like a Paladin that he could not be reclassified as a Ranger for example.

KGB

[piranha]

The crusader unit is not drawn with the same quality as the other heroes so he would not work in the big size format that is used when you open your hero info and there is no portrait for him either.
He will have to be a normal unit. If there is need for another hero he will have to be a completly new unit.

I think the idea that the heros may have slightly cheaper upgrades depending on which one you choose is pretty interesting. Could be hard to balance. The numbers we are playing with can't change very much or a unit will be unbalanced.

Me and Snotling have debated the idea to multiply all values. Lets say the dice have 100 sides (*5 compared to now) and all units and bonuses are *5 STR compared to now.
That would allow us to finetune balancing much more. It will give more room for more upgrades since each upgrade won't have to be as big. Just take the stack bonus for example, the pegasi would be +5 STR in this case. Another unit could be stack +2 STR. I find the current battle model a bit limited in many ways, by multiplaying it like that some of those limitations would open up.
I can understand that warlords 4 tried to do something like tactical combat to add more strategy to battles.

I can see quite a lot of benefit in multiplying all numbers like that, and I haven't been able to see any negative sides of doing it.
Any thoughts? Any reason for not doing it?


Moonknight: The flying unit would have to be balanced in such a way that you don't want to replace ground troops with him to capure cities, if he is weaker than ground units but pretty good at attacking flying units he could have a place.


What about a bonus that is ground unit based? some flying units with +STR when attacking ground units?

For beta4 we will proably only have time to add the crusader unit, but I could order graphics for a couple of other units.

Here is a list of possible new units. (Nothing too weird that most people don't recognize)
1. Flying unit (Eagle seems like a good choice?) rather light flying unit.

2. Sea creture (Some kind of serpent?), (No 100% sea units since you produce it on land and it must be able to make it to sea). Can move between land and sea without changing but still move cost 1 on sea. +STR bonus on water (and possibly in swamp). This unit will be able to quickly move over large areas due to move 1 on sea and no conversation so it should not be very strong. (Should a hero be able to ride it?)

3. Desert based unit (Both scorpion and sandworm are interesting choices) STR bonus in desert. (if its a worm it could have move bonus and STR bonus on desert and snow (New terrain in beta4) but be rather weak on hard terrain. (Could have the demons bonus)
If we should have a scorpion which bonuses could he have?

List of possible new bonuses (some may be to hard to program to be viable ideas, just come up with ideas and we will have to figure out if they can be made)
1 +STR on water
2 +STR vs ground
3 +STR on desert
3 Move between land and sea without conversation
4 move bonus on water
5 Perhaps a worm should be able to move underneath mountain if it has enough move to surface on the other side on the same turn?


I will take the chance to discuss another idea that me and Snotling have talked about which could also open up some for more strategy which is making most units have different STR when attacking / defending (This would however be easier to balance if we multiply everything by 5)