Hosting Options

[LPhillips]

Hi, I have some suggestions for additional hosting options. I don't know how they would be implemented, but I would like to see them as map creator options. Keep in mind when reading this that I will be using the word "scenario" as defined in the dictionary, not as a reference to the mapmaking option. Crescendo is the map in question, though I think the options could apply to many maps. So here is what i want to do:

I would like to be able to allow game hosts to select from various scenarios enacted on one map, so that a multipurpose map does not need to be hosted as several different maps. Basically, I want the map creator to be able to set up team spawns very specifically. I'm practically bedridden with illness today, so I spent some time adjusting Crescendo to allow for the following situations:

Map Key
P=player
T=team

Map setup is
P1 P2
P3 P4
P5 P6
P7 P8

Setup/Scenario One
T1 T1
T1 T1
T2 T2
T2 T2

Setup/Scenario Two
T1 T2
T1 T2
T1 T2
T1 T2

Setup/Scenario Three
T1 T1
T2 T2
T3 T3
T4 T4

And of course Free-for-all.

Now this would allow a lot of fixes for those facing problems with map hosting, including the one demonstrated recently on The Waste. The creator (in this case Hatchfactory) would simply need to set up a few different scenarios under which the map can be played. Eventually, you can have certain map features implemented/removed according to the setup chosen by the host (e.g. my speed-bump guard towers designed to make certain matchups on Crescendo more fair). But the main thing is to allow map creators to set very carefully defined spawn options for their maps. This is important as we evolve the team games, which appear to be the future of Warbarons. No more spawns that look like this example from The Waste:
T1
_____T2
__________T1
T2
_____T2
__________T1

Instead, only fair and balanced spawns as predefined by the map creator will be possible. Currently the only way to do this is to create a "scenario map" for a single defined setup, excluding all others. So I would need to publish 3 copies of Crescendo to allow the setups I demonstrated. Or I would need to give up on all but one by publishing it as a "scenario map", and thereby (I believe?) remove it from Ladder play, just to ensure that spawns will always be fair.
A second and perhaps much easier-to-program way to implement this is to allow mapmakers to create their basic map, then "branch" it into several different forms where they can adjust spawns and other options. So when a host selects a map, "Middle Earth", he/she is prompted "select scenario", and chooses from "Broken alliances" (predefined 2v2v2v2), "Battle for Middle Earth" (traditional 4good vs 4evil), or "Anarchy" (7-player FFA with Gondor or Rohan removed).

[KGB]

LPhillips,

Some excellent suggestions here. What I think would be easiest (and best) would be to use something similar to the DLR setup screen/methods.

- In DLR you only have 1 copy of any map regardless of whether it's going to be used for scenario or just a 1v1 or ladder etc.

- As the map creator, you setup the scenario in the map editor as you do now. That is you define the starting armies for player cities, how many cities they own (you can own multiple at start time in DLR) and anything else

- At game creation time, you select what you want to use (normal or scenario). If you select scenario then you use the scenario setup that the map creator defined. If you chose normal you bypass all that and simply use the map.

Attached is a screen shot of the DLR setup screen for a game. You can see all the options that a game creator can do at creation time. Most of these are self explanatory. The Army Setup and City Setup are the 2 that matter from a scenario point of view. You can chose to accept the scenario army setup or not (ie what the map designer gave as starting armies for each player) or the scenario city setup (ie what the map designer gave as starting production in the capitols only) or not.

The only other thing that would be needed for Warbarons would be to allow the game creator to set the team alliances (ie set which colors are allied in team games).

KGB

P.S. I tried to attach a jpg screenshot and got this error:

Could not upload attachment to ./files/1017_87c3355478c8d13b27a6cd13c7712e8a.

[piranha]

Testing attachement.

Try to attach again. I changed permissions on the upload directory on the new server.


Looks good. Will see if its something for B6.

[LPhillips]

Man, that page takes me back!
(If anyone is having trouble viewing it, click the image then use your keyboard's arrow keys)

Keep in mind that the DLR system doesn't solve my problem; it still only allows for one scenario. Just one default setup. I'm hoping to do a bit better than that.

[SnotlinG]

Just wanted to quickly say that in scenariomode you can start with as many cities as the mapcreator like. I just havent seen any map use this yet, so maybe it needs to be clarified
Also you can set starting armies, buildings/towers placed anywere on the map, so its possible to give one player a big kingdom from the start - if that suits the scenario.

[LPhillips]

Good options. What I'm hoping for is not a Scenario option, but rather predefined setups for ladder maps. But I think you know that; just clarifying.

[LichKing]

I think I suggested something similar for scenario control in different kind of games here, to assign teams/starting cities, also in FFA

[LPhillips]

So, we'd have a similar page in map hosting? Right now, the player chooses if the game will be teams or FFA when beginning the hosting process. After that, they would select a team setup (4v4, 2v2v2v2, etc.), then the game could either show them preset options for what that would look like (let them select from several graphics depicting allowed starting positions for, say, 4v4 on that map), or possibly let them manually set starting positions for all teams?

I feel it is necessary to show why those options could be important, so here is an example of different interesting starting positions on a map that could be made:

A.
T1------T1
---T2T2---
---T2T2---
T1------T1

B.
T1------T1
---T1T1---
---T2T2---
T2------T2

C.
T1------T2
---T2T1---
---T1T2---
T2------T1

Et cetera. The possibilities for this example are pretty extensive, but the point is that nonrandom presets should be established, and probably locked (for ladder games) to prevent hosts from "rigging" the game. I have given it a lot of thought, and here's a new suggestion that is easy enough to program and extremely user-friendly!

1) The map creator is given a section, "Starting Positions", which leads with a dropdown menu "Set options for..." FFA, 2v2, 2v2v2, etc. Let's say they choose 2v2v2v2. This opens a normal interactive minimap where the possible spawn cities are shown. All cities on the map can be considered possible starting locations; it won't matter. The creator simply selects a starting city and sets its team from another popup menu "Random, Team 1, Team 1, Team 2, Team 2, and so on). The options disappear as they are used (With the exception of random obviously), and when the total number of slots is filled (8 randoms and/or specific team placements) the menu empties (you can't program more than the gametype you chose). Here I would like to note that you could later include other options allowing more than one starting city per player, without changing the basic framework and premise. When finished, you hit button "Save Setting" and the minimap is frozen and labeled "Option One". It's clearly readable, each castle labeled "R" or with the team number. The original dropdown menu and two buttons are left in the page: one below the save titled "Delete" and another button at the top of the page titled "New Option". The player may continue this for different numbers of players, different team groupings, and so on until satisfied. He may even set different possibilities for different FFA groupings (set none for 5 players, allow only specific balanced setups for 4 players, and so on).
If you follow my textwall, the interface is extremely simple and there can be near-endless possibilities for a map, each of which will store very simply as short number strings attached to the starting cities, which are identified by a number assigned at placement. There's also no room for error, non-code bugs nor duplication problems as I will explain in a moment.
2) The map host is given all the same options up to "Select teams", just as now. Then, once a team option is selected (2v2v2v2), a popup shows the same clearly labeled minimaps available, and the host simply clicks one of his balanced options. Let's say it shows starting positions for one player of each team, and leaves the other 4 random (maybe we have a fairly split mainland and 4 randomized island spawns around it). The game fills the assigned positions with the first player of each team, then takes all remaining players and fills all randomized slots with the current randomizing engine. Even should some nut assign 2/8 players and leave the other spots randomized, all will come out without a hitch because the number of spots to be filled will always match the remaining slots in the game lobby.

Problems solved at creator end and user end, possibly even Scenario settings integrated with normal maps without too much trouble. I'd be happy to provide illustration if my writing is unclear.

[LPhillips]

Here is an example anyway, because it only took 5 minutes.