Balancing patch 0.8.1

[SnotlinG]

We have made a small balancing patch with the following changes:
Units
Light inf, Move changed from 14 to 15.
Orc, Move changed from 15 to 14, Battle changed from 10 to 8.
Wolfrider, Upkeep changed from 2 to 4, Ambush changed from 20 to 16.
Crusader, Move changed from 14 to 15.


Heroes
Assassin:
Starting Group Ambush changed from 10 to 8.
When leveling Group Ambush the increase is changed from 10 to 8.
Max Move changed from 24 to 22.
Chaos City changed to cost 5p per 1 point of Chaos City (previous 15p per 3 points of Chaos City).
Undead Lore, changed to start at 7, but increase by 3 for each abilitypoint spent. (previous started at 10 but increased 2 for each abilitypoint).
Undead Lore, max changed from 26 to 25.

Barbarian:
Changed Battle increase from +8 per 5 points to +7 per 5 points.
Changed Battle max value from 70 to 65.

The changes take effect imediately, so we are sorry for affecting already ongoing games, but the changes are not that big so we hope you will survive

[Moonknight]

I like all the changes except for the Ghost change from 8 to 6 group ambush. Ghosts still take 3 turns to create and are usually 3 turns away from your main Assassin ambush stack.

The Wolfrider ambush change was much needed with the Assassin in play.

[Chazar]

The changes are nice, but the immediate effect is weird! For example, ghosts produced yesterday keep their 8 group ambush, while newly produced ghosts have 6 group ambush.

PS:
Same holds for heroes! We just started a game, and those who made their turn yesterday got an Assassin with 10 GroupAmbush and UndeadLore, while those starting today and later get 8 GroupAmbush and juts 7 UndeadLore, which makes searching ruins on the first turn with Assassins a no go.

[SnotlinG]

The changes are nice, but the immediate effect is weird! For example, ghosts produced yesterday keep their 8 group ambush, while newly produced ghosts have 6 group ambush.

Yes we know
Unfortunately the choice would have been to wait until 0.9 release otherwise which is still quite some time away.
And since we felt it was important to get this patch out quick, we judged the individual changes not to be gamebreaking for ongoing games.

[LPhillips]

I agree with the comments, including the statement that the ghost change is not good. It's still 3 turns to make.

By the way, is group ambush capped yet?

[KGB]

I'll third the vote that the Ghost change to 6 wasn't needed. Nor was the change to the Orc battle skill or Wolfrider ambush chance (upkeep change is fine).

The only real change that was needed was to the Assassin hero, all of which I think is fine (although the Chaos/City works out to the same exact thing, just easier to obtain).

The Barbarian hero change certainly doesn't affect him in any real meaningful way in terms of whether I would or would not take him (either I take him as my 1st hero or I never take one).

KGB

[SharesLoot]

It is a good patch... Assassins and Barbarians had become the best heroes overall. Too bad they are weaker now, but it makes it fair and much more attractive to play the others as well.

I disagree with making Ghosts even weaker, though. A full stack got a free kill mostly, but the second unit fighting them usually gets them, they are not that strong. Meh, whatever.

It\'s just sad that changes are almost always for making specialized units weaker. Heavy infantry defense will be reduced next, then the Pegasi bonus down to three... in the end, we are merely playing \"Risk\" where the size of the stack is the only criterion for victory. Then we can increase the build time for crows to three turns :p

My 0.02 �

[LPhillips]

I think you'll find that the only thing Ambush-related in need of adjustment is the heroes. If the max +group ambush is capped, then you won't need to do much else. Of course the % gain per level has to be reduced to 8 or lower until Assassin stacking is fixed. To me, it's vitally important to introduce a hard cap to group ambush. Weakening all ambush overall seems like a poor alternative. I think you will be restoring Assassins to +10% per level as soon as they no longer stack with each other, and no one will be using tons of ambush units if the heroes are not so overpowered. I think the overuse of ambush units is simply a symptom of the overpowered stacking heroes. Once you get rid of the problem you won't need to do this collateral damage to control its symptoms.

Of course, if much of this is temporary in lieu of the heavy programming work required to fix Assassin stacking, then it's well justified. There's no other way right now to leave the Assassins in play.

[SnotlinG]

Ghost change reverted, i.e. its now back to 8 in group ambush as before.

[jetigig]

I agree with everything but the change of Orc battle from 10 to 8.