Combat on Ports Bug

[KGB]

This happened in 0.8 but I doubt it's changed in 0.9

My opponent had a stack of units sitting on a port. I attacked those units from land. I expected to be a favorite to win the battle but only had a 30% chance and ultimately lost (including a valuable hero and dragon).

When I looked at the combat in detail I was stunned to see my units fighting as Djonks (15 strength). I expected to fight as land units with my full strength. I never got any chance to upgrade my units to boats before the combat took place.

Either the player has to be able to upgrade first before combat OR land units attacking to ports must fight as land units with their full combat strengths (this is probably easier to code).

KGB

[SnotlinG]

Hello KGB,

This is no bug, it is how it is supposed to work.
The logic is this: Attacking a port can be difficult as you dont have time to build proper warships etc
Ingame there are other arguments for it also, since you cannot be in Land-mode on a port, it wouldnt make sense to be able to attack as Landunit into the port.
However, your hero and dragon should not have been converted to djonks, if they were it is a bug so please let me know.

We will update the wiki to clarify this scenario of attacks into Docks, as it isnt very clear how it works.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

This is a HUGE problem. If someone puts a stack of units on a port (Serpents/Kraken especially or even just land units that convert to Galleons) then you have NO way of killing them from land other than a flying stack. The reason is your land armies always fight as Djonks (15) while his will fight at their best strengths. All your bonus's (heroes and otherwise) are basically useless and in such a situation an average stack can kill a super stack purely due to them forced onto Djonks (which is what happened to me).

It makes ports the best spot on the map to sit. Better than towers and cities (unless the cities have other stacks). It also means on maps with water that the best strategy will be to seize control of the ports and sit there preventing the enemy from getting into/out of the water.

KGB

[Tim]

You speak from our Game I think KGB.I dont think it was such a big stack from you and it was really ok how the fight goes. Your Flying Units and your Heroes have the normal battle and the Assassin bonus is put to all your units. So the only thing is that your Wolfriders have 5 battle less and your unicorn was not so strong, but the special ability is powerful.

I lost 4 Serpents, a medusa and unicorn. You lost 5 Wolfriders, a unicorn, a dragon and your Assassin. Its ok for me. I now this an try to use it. You shuld know it too! Not? Weird.

[KGB]

Tim,

It is from our game. But my Wolfriders lost more than 5 strength. They lost 7 as my Dragon's Morale was better than your Kraken's fear. So they fought at 15 instead of 22 against your Serpents and my Unicorn fought at 15 instead of 32. I ran the battle in my simulator and at 22 vs 20 compared to 15 vs 20 I would have won handily (85% vs 29%) especially when each Woflrider had 32% Ambush thanks to the Assassin hero. So that made a HUGE difference in the outcome of that battle as had my hero survived he would have gained 2 levels of XP. So no, it was not an OK fight.

Ultimately the problem remains that players can't attack ports. For example placing 8 Hv Inf on a port in Galleons allows them to defend at 20. Someone attacking from land with 7 blessed Minotaurs (or Giants etc) and a Red Dragon would lose that battle (15 vs 20 + 1 dragon) where as ANYWHERE else they would slaughter that stack in an instant even if it was in a city / Tower with +15 walls. It's something that has to get changed or many maps with limited port access will be broken.

KGB

[Jeremy]

As a workaround, map designers should put in lots and lots of ports. One by the city if desired, but also one or two further down the coast.

[piranha]

Just going by IRL, blocking sea access by blocking a port with war ships seems like a strategy that must have been used a lot. Trying to break out of such a port without artillery from land should be expensive so in that sense it does seem right that you can control ports with powerful sea units.

[Tim]

Yes thats what i think too. KGB you braek my lines but dont block the ports yourself. You have the chance.

Maybe some units can have an ability to not lose their strengh when attacking a port from land. Espicially Archers. They can Fire... or Catapults.

[KGB]

Tim,

I had no idea this 'bug' existed until last turn. I'm probably going to resign in our game. It's an old 0.8 game and there is really nothing interesting left to play for as it's an exact repeat of the last test game. In 0.9 there are new heroes and the map has been slightly adjusted again so I'd rather do another game.

Piranha,

I understand your logic. But the game has no 'artillery from shore' concept. That could only be the land armies attacking the ships which I suggested as the fix since if boats are in the port they should be subject to attack from land forces. The problem is that the penalty is so overwhelming (15 capped strength) that it's potentially -30 or more (imagine 30 strength units with a Red Dragon and a hero with +20 bonus and you are actually taking a -45 penalty!) and there are NO counters to this. In cities/towers you can bring siege, on terrain you can use a Unicorn, against a hero you can use an Archon etc. The player is forced into the absolute worst situation (you can't change to better boats, you can't pass the enemy stack to get water access if you need it, you can't link up with any existing boats/water units you have nearby etc).

So my point is why should someone sitting on ports be able to force the other player into 15 strength with them having no way around it? If you change to allow land units to attack at land strength then everything is fair (upgraded boats fight at regular strength themselves and sea units get their water bonus. Or the player can not park armies on the port if they want to avoid attacks from land armies).

KGB

P.S. Incidentally just adding this info to the Wiki is not enough. Very few players are going to see it. If you aren't going to change it then you really need to add a pop-up for attacking ports that says 'you will be forced onto 15 capped strength boats. Do you still want to make this attack?'

[Tim]

It was only so terrible because you dont know it KGB. When you know it you can react.

I think when all Land units attack with normal strengh all water units must defend at normal strengh without looking what Ship Type. Why should the Defender could not have normal strengh on Djonks then? Its a normal Land Battle on ships then. Maybe the Defender can get a Bonus on ports then depending on the Ships size. Djonk +0 Galley +5 and Galleon +10 maybe...Then and only then its a normal battle. You must see both sides. Not only the Attacker. With your example the Attacker is preferred.

Or as my proposal in earlyer posts(or the Wish List) you have some Range Units that can Attack the Ports without loosing strengh...

By the way...ok surrender.