Hero offers in v0.9 more scarce?

[Chazar]

Is it just me, or have heroes become more scarce since 0.9?

Having had 0 heroes and 600-700 gold, no hero showed up within 4-5 turns. This happened in two games, so I bought production instead in those games. Before 0.9 a hero pretty much always showed up when you had no hero at all.

Of course, I am well aware that a single observation about something luck related is pretty useless. However, maybe other people have made the same observations?

Do the new rules imply that it is more difficult to buy a 1st level hero in later turns (because you need enough gold to buy a higher level hero)?

[Zaque]

I have noticed the same thing and just put it down to the new gold levels and way the hero offer was calc. in 0.9. I too have ended up buying a lot more new production earlier now than in 0.8 because of this.

[KGB]

Chazar,

What turn in the game were you when this happened? The higher level (more expensive heroes) don't happen until a fair number of turns have passed. You can still get a L1 hero up until turn 20 or so.

I haven't personally noticed anything. I still tend to get 2-3 heroes very early (before turn 10) then start buying production. But now that you've posted this I'll try and keep track to see if there really is something different.

KGB

[Chazar]

Around turn 5-10, I guess. Well, I could have just been bad luck. Nevertheless I would be nice to know the current algorithm for hero offerings.

[KGB]

- Luck is reduced a bit by decreasing the span of the hero offers you can get.
- Max cost for hero changed to 850 from 1200. New span is 400 - 850 gold.
- Heroes spawn with a possible max level. You will receive the highest level you can afford from that spawn.
Each level cost 250 gold.
Turn 6 - 12: 33% level 1, 66% level 2. (if enough gold)
Turn 13 - 18: 66% level 2, 33% level 3 (if enough gold)
Turn 19 - 24: 50% level 2, 25% level 3, 25% level 4 (if enough gold)
Turn 25+: 33% level 3, 33% level 4, 33% level 5 chance to receive a level 2 hero (if enough gold)
Cost span for ally units is also reduced to 100 - 200 spans instead of 250 - 400 spans.

At best you might have been offered a L2 hero. That increases costs slightly but not much. Now that max hero cost is lowered from 1200 to 850 the cost of a L2 hero is actually slightly cheaper than a L1 did before.

However you'll note the 'Luck is reduced' sentence. That indicates there will be fewer offers. It used to top out at 75%. Like you, I'd like to know what it tops out at now to help decide whether to save gold or buy production. There also used to be a clause where if you had no heroes (your case) that the chance was allowed to reach 100% to help get a player a hero. At the very least that should have been retained.

KGB

[Chazar]

- Luck is reduced a bit by [i]decreasing the span[i] of the hero offers you can get.

I read this as: "since the span of possible hero cost is smaller now (by lowering the max), heroes are more frequent now" (I assume the lower limit remaining at 400, since I already had heroes offered at under 450).

What confuses me is this

Heroes spawn with a possible max level. You will receive the highest level you can afford from that spawn

This would imply that if I am poor, the hero chances are not influenced by the possible level, since one receives the highest level one can afford. So does this mean there is first a roll to see whether or not a hero arrives and then another roll to determine level and then one for allies. Now if either one of the latter two rolls fails for my wealth, will I still get a plain L1 hero offer? I would read it so.

Otherwise I agree: if one has not a single hero, then one should be offered always be offered at a random price between the ordinary min/max of a L1 hero, with the offer only being valid if the player has enough money, implying that at 850 gold one would always get an offer.

[KGB]

Chazar,

I read this as: "since the span of possible hero cost is smaller now (by lowering the max), heroes are more frequent now" (I assume the lower limit remaining at 400, since I already had heroes offered at under 450).

You might be right about how you are reading it.

Since the hero offer span in 0.8 was 10-75% I read it as that span was reduced to smaller range than 10-75. This technically also reduces luck in the long run (ie over many turns) as opposed to the short term (1 turn) as it would provide a smaller standard deviation.

This would imply that if I am poor, the hero chances are not influenced by the possible level, since one receives the highest level one can afford. So does this mean there is first a roll to see whether or not a hero arrives and then another roll to determine level and then one for allies. Now if either one of the latter two rolls fails for my wealth, will I still get a plain L1 hero offer? I would read it so.

I read this exactly as you do. My game experience would suggest this is correct because I've finished up some games vs the AI after other players quit and been offered a single L3 hero with no allies around turn 25+ when I had only 1400 gold.

Otherwise I agree: if one has not a single hero, then one should be offered always be offered at a random price between the ordinary min/max of a L1 hero, with the offer only being valid if the player has enough money, implying that at 850 gold one would always get an offer.

Except that you'll note that starting at T13 the minimum hero level is now 2. So the minimum/maximum gold needed would now rise to 650-1100. After T25 that would be 900-1350.

KGB

[Chazar]

Its turn 15 now, I have 750 gold, no hero, no offer. This could be really bad luck, right?

However, next turn I will have above 850 gold. Shouldn't this guarantee me an offer for a hero, if I have none?

[KGB]

Chazar,

No. Look at the hero table again. Starting at T13 the minimum level is now 2 which means the cost range is now 650-1100. So you'll have around a 50% chance with 850 gold.

Actually with only 750 gold (and less on prior turns) your chances the last couple of turns have been really low given that the minimum gold is 650 starting on T13.

KGB

[Chazar]

I had read it that the levels are on top of the chance, i.e. that one could still get a L1 hero in later turns. However, it seems that you are right.

Ugh, that makes a comeback so much harder.