Ruin Rewards

[tabanli]

Is there a reason why battle win percentage is not given with the Undead battles? If I got slain with 28 UL in an L3 ruin, I would like to know if this is an extremely bad luck or that It was somewhat likely. This would help me to try the ruin again or pass.

[KGB]

Tabanli,

The game doesn't run 1000 combats to generate a win % because it doesn't need to remove extreme outcomes like it does for regular battles.

Also any undead you kill are gone so the next time you entered the ruin the combat % will be different if there are fewer defenders.

KGB

[Chazar]

You were rather unlucky: Assuming UL 28 and 2 hitpoints here are the survival chances for increasing number of undead:

Undead 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Skeleton (3/2) 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%
Ghoul (5/2) 99.7% 99.1% 98.3% 97.1% 95.8%
Mummy (10/2) 98.9% 96.8% 93.7%
Vampire (15/2) 95.9% 88.6% 79.6%

The 100% survival chance is due to a rounding error in Warbarons. I actually tried it several times: A HorseLord with UL11 will never die against Skeletons in a level1 ruin due to this rounding error as well. I can provide more detail if anyone wants to know.

L2 at D20 is probably a bit too easy. Especially for the Ranger who starts at 12 and reaches 18 at L3 making her an incredibly effective ruin searcher for L1/L2 ruins. Just increasing to 22, mid way between 12 and 33 would make L2 ruins a bit tougher and make increase the value of the poor Paladin whose ruin searching skills are largely ignored now because of the Ranger being automatic on L1 ruins and able to handle L2 with virtually no extra UL units/items.

I agree and would actually increase L1 too, giving all heroes an additional point or so of UL, in order to make the increase in survival chance a bit less steep: Going into L1 with UL9 is too dangerous and going in L1 with UL11 is too safe for my taste. That is just 2 points apart! I think a wider range would be better for the game.

Another possibility would be to set the skeleton to Strength 5 and the ghoul to Strength 7. Skeletons are a joke at level 2 & 3, as the above table shows!

(Maybe another reason the Eye of KGB might be powerful: if you know that the guardians are skeletons or ghouls, the risk may become quite small. So it favors those who know detailed probabilites. )

[tabanli]

[quote="Chazar"]You were rather unlucky: Assuming UL 28 and 2 hitpoints here are the survival chances for increasing number of undead:
[quote]

Thanks Chazar that would help me a bit. It was two Vampires at the ruin and probably worth the risk.

[KGB]

The 100% survival chance is due to a rounding error in Warbarons. I actually tried it several times: A HorseLord with UL11 will never die against Skeletons in a level1 ruin due to this rounding error as well. I can provide more detail if anyone wants to know.

I do. According to the math the Skeletons should have a roughly 3% chance to hit. That's significant enough that it shouldn't have been rounded off.

I agree and would actually increase L1 too, giving all heroes an additional point or so of UL, in order to make the increase in survival chance a bit less steep: Going into L1 with UL9 is too dangerous and going in L1 with UL11 is too safe for my taste. That is just 2 points apart! I think a wider range would be better for the game.

Another possibility would be to set the skeleton to Strength 5 and the ghoul to Strength 7. Skeletons are a joke at level 2 & 3, as the above table shows!

I think the idea of L1 ruins was to provide a reliable way for heroes to search one type of ruin without dying too easily. It would be very disappointing to regularly lose your L1 hero to a L1 ruin all the time which is why the chance for 100% success is fairly easy to attain. So I am OK with the L1 being 12.

The bigger problem for me is all the new heroes (HL, Ranger etc) all got MORE starting UL than the Paladin did. Back when 9 was the best starting UL, the L1 ruins with skeletons were a legit challenge if you didn't take at least one UL unit with you. So I think it would actually be better to LOWER the HL and Ranger heroes starting UL. Lower the Ranger to 9 (same as Pally) but allow her 3 upgrades so she still reaches 18 but at L4. Drop the HL to 8 (same as DK) and give him 1 more upgrade too so he can still reach his max of 16 just 1 level higher.

Increasing the Skeleton/Ghoul UL makes sense too. But I'd vote for 4 for Skeleton/7 for Ghoul. Then create a 5th Undead unit (Wraith) and make it 10 UL and increase Mummy to 13. Then change the encounter guardians to L1: Skeleton/Ghoul. L2: Ghoul/Wraith/Mummy. L3 Wraith/Mummy/Vampire.

KGB

[tabanli]

Ranger and HL has better speed and they have group move bonus. Ranger already starts with 110 learning. She would reach level 3 much faster than Paladin. So I would second Ranger going back to 9 UL starting with potential to 18. At level 3 HL will be 16, Ranger 15, Paladin 15. Still a good ruin hunter.

I think changing the Undead strength or dice would cause confusion among the players. Everybody have a comfort level with ruins and if you weren't dying before and suddenly start getting slain, it would disrupt your game lot. People would adopt to change in a single Hero stat much faster.

I also would like to propose giving Paladin basic move bonus on hills so that he may use hills as staying point without being scared of HL and Rangers greater land leadership. This could be useful in some maps.

[SnotlinG]

Small change done to undead found in ruins:

Level 2 ruins:
Skeletons max: 8
Ghoul max: 5

Level 3 ruins
Skeletons removed
Ghoul max 8

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

Are the minimum's still the same? What are the new % numbers for those changes so I can update my Wiki page.

Can you increase the dice on L2 to 22 too?

KGB

[magian]

What are the odds of finding specific allies in each ruin type? I almost always find demons or archons, and was wondering if they were more likely, or if I was just a bit unlucky. I can't recall ever finding a red dragon

[KGB]

I suspect you've been a bit unlucky. I've found Red Dragons, Devils, Grand Archons (regular Archons too I think) and Demons in L3 ruins.

KGB