Ruin Rewards

[SnotlinG]

KGB, level 2 ruin dice now set to 22.

Updated level 2 ruin entries for skeleton + ghouls

// Undead guardian
$undeadarray[0] = array();
$undeadarray[0]['numbers'] = array(6,6,7,7,8);
$undeadarray[0]['armytypeID'] = 100;
$undeadarray[0]['type'] = 'Skeleton';

$undeadarray[1] = array();
$undeadarray[1]['numbers'] = array(3,4,4,5);
$undeadarray[1]['armytypeID'] = 101;
$undeadarray[1]['type'] = 'Ghoul';


Updated level 3 entries for ghouls:
// Undead guardian
$undeadarray[0] = array();
$undeadarray[0]['numbers'] = array(5,6,7,8);
$undeadarray[0]['armytypeID'] = 101;
$undeadarray[0]['type'] = 'Ghoul';

What are the odds of finding specific allies in each ruin type? I almost always find demons or archons, and was wondering if they were more likely, or if I was just a bit unlucky. I can't recall ever finding a red dragon

It is even distribution...

[Chazar]

The 100% survival chance is due to a rounding error in Warbarons. I actually tried it several times: A HorseLord with UL10 will never die against Skeletons in a level1 ruin due to this rounding error as well. I can provide more detail if anyone wants to know.

I do. According to the math the Skeletons should have a roughly 3% chance to hit. That's significant enough that it shouldn't have been rounded off.

I explained this in detail in another thread now: http://www.warbarons.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2173&sid=ce20781608458f67de6410766b15c5f2
In fact, even a UL10 is safe against Skeletons in L1 ruins, sorry I misremembered that. However, I do not see any reason to fix this behaviour (for reasons detailed in that thread), apart from increasing the Skeleton's strength, to make fighting Skeletons a little bit interesting.

I think the idea of L1 ruins was to provide a reliable way for heroes to search one type of ruin without dying too easily. It would be very disappointing to regularly lose your L1 hero to a L1 ruin all the time which is why the chance for 100% success is fairly easy to attain. So I am OK with the L1 being 12.

KGB, you misunderstood me here: I like 100% chance for Heroes.

In fact, I proposed to increase the survival chance for a newly born Paladin.

There are numerous ways to achieve that: increasing the ruin die while at the same time increasing the initial hero UL scores was my suggestion.

This would also lessen the difference that a single scout with +1UL makes, which currently is far too huge imho.

[tabanli]

KGB, level 2 ruin dice now set to 22.

Please make sure that we properly announce this. Is it for the new games or for every game? I don't want to be in the place of a guy loosing a 18-20 UL hero at an L2 ruin be cause current games still shows "Medium Danger Dice 20" warning.

I also like the new pop-up screen that shows who is searching the ruin and with how much UL. Maybe we can put the Dice over there as well.

[Chazar]

Why not abandon the ruin dice completly and use normal battles with 90% in ruins as well? The whole system is confusing to beginners, and it takes a while to understand how strong a certain UL score is.

Continue to use UL instead of strength (of course with largely increased inital scores and increments), but otherwise keep the mechanics the same. So the existing normal 90% rule then gives your hero a 100% success chance against weak undead encountered in the L1 L2 ruins?

This way, players only need to learn one battle mechanic!

[KGB]

KGB, you misunderstood me here: I like 100% chance for Heroes.

Me too. But not for L1 heroes on their own without help. It's very easy to get a couple of scouts and put them with your L1 hero to reach 12 UL and be 100% guaranteed to win. Players should learn how to do that with L1 ruins so they can properly prepare for L2/L3 ruins.

Please make sure that we properly announce this. Is it for the new games or for every game? I don't want to be in the place of a guy loosing a 18-20 UL hero at an L2 ruin be cause current games still shows "Medium Danger Dice 20" warning.

Agreed. Since ruins are being totally redone (rewards, guardians, dice for L2) this either needs a mini-update (0.92) or a major announcement that all games starting on day X are using the new ruin stuff.

Why not abandon the ruin dice completly and use normal battles with 90% in ruins as well? The whole system is confusing to beginners, and it takes a while to understand how strong a certain UL score is.

Continue to use UL instead of strength (of course with largely increased inital scores and increments), but otherwise keep the mechanics the same. So the existing normal 90% rule then gives your hero a 100% success chance against weak undead encountered in the L1 L2 ruins?

The game is using the same battle mechanic. The only difference is the D12/D22/D33 vs D100.

As far as the 90% rule goes, I am not sure how many players know it. Or even understand it properly (that it's also a 10% rule in terms of minimum damage). I personally wouldn't want the 90% rule on ruins because I like the idea that you have to risk the hero to get the reward and there already is a 100% mechanism in place if your UL exceeds the ruin dice (something that's impossible in the battle mechanics since strength is limited to 75 out of 100).

Also eventually in the next major update (1.0) when the heroes get re-done I'd like to see the 90% rule changed to the 95% rule (need 95% to be sure of victory/min 5% damage). Then you can offer a 'luck' skill for heroes to increase up to 5% (% at a time). That skill would reduce the 95% down to 90% where it is now.

KGB

[Versace]

My 26ul, 3hp hero searched a level 3 ruin and died against 4 vampires. Managed to kill one. According to Warpedia there should be max 3 vampires in a ruin, and that is the worst possible scenario. The map was Westeros ladder map and the ruin called "Moet Catlin".

edit: I see from previous messages that it has been changed. Also says max3 in the game when clicking the lvl3 ruin. When clicking lvl2 ruin it also says max 3 vampires.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

Two more questions.

1) What % did you apply to gold/item/ally for the 3 levels of ruin rewards. For example on a L1 ruin is it 80% gold, 20% item, For a L2 is it 60/20/20 gold/item/ally etc?
2) In an email Piranha mentioned there is an extra gold modifier (50-300*ruin level) added to gold and item rewards. However it appears to me that not all items get this extra gold modifier because I sometimes get items with no extra gold. So what are the odds of getting extra gold in addition to the item reward?

KGB

[SnotlinG]

I havent changed the ruin-reward code now, as that is a bit more troublesome to update.
Currently it is working like this:

If a ruin has a reward, i.e. a non-ally ruin, there is 80% chance the ruin has an item - IF there exists any unused unique item still. So it is affected by the number of ruins on the map, and I guess exact % is kind of impossible to calculate with this code. (Might be good to know that all the ruins guardians/rewards are determined during game setup, so it is not the case that the first 15 explored ruins contains a lot more items than the next 15 etc...)
This is valid for all types of ruins, but since there is different number of items/level I guess it affects the overall % also for finding gold/item at different ruinlevels.

If a ruin contains an item, it is 44% chance for the ruin to also contain a small amount of gold.

Probably this code will be updated in the future, but right now it is not top priority.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

If a ruin has a reward, i.e. a non-ally ruin, there is 80% chance the ruin has an item - IF there exists any unused unique item still.

OK. But what's the chance of an ally in L2/L3? I still don't know that number. Once I know that number for each level of ruin I can work out item/gold chances. Obviously for L1 ruins it's 80% item, 20% gold until items run out.

So it is affected by the number of ruins on the map, and I guess exact % is kind of impossible to calculate with this code. (Might be good to know that all the ruins guardians/rewards are determined during game setup, so it is not the case that the first 15 explored ruins contains a lot more items than the next 15 etc...)

Even though it's done at setup time (I mentioned that in the Wiki) there is a bug with this method. My guess is that when you set up the ruins you are starting at ruin 1 and going to ruin N. Where 1 is the 1st ruin placed on the map and ruin N is the last one. So if a map maker does the normal thing and places ruins together in 1 area as they create the map (ie first 10 in the upper left, next 10 in the upper right and so on) then all the items will cluster together in one area. I've seen this on quite a few maps where my hero finds 4 items in the first 4 L1 ruins he searches while another player finds only gold. This severely handicaps the player who gets 4 items. That's why I think the item % should be quite low (10-15% tops) so that not many items are in ruins and they get distributed better.

If a ruin contains an item, it is 44% chance for the ruin to also contain a small amount of gold.

Interesting number. How did that come about as opposed to say using a more obvious 50%.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

OK. But what's the chance of an ally in L2/L3? I still don't know that number. Once I know that number for each level of ruin I can work out item/gold chances. Obviously for L1 ruins it's 80% item, 20% gold until items run out.

I mentioned it earlier, but here it comes again
lvl 1 = 0%
lvl2 = 25%
lvl3 = 30%

Even though it's done at setup time (I mentioned that in the Wiki) there is a bug with this method. My guess is that when you set up the ruins you are starting at ruin 1 and going to ruin N. Where 1 is the 1st ruin placed on the map and ruin N is the last one.

There was exactly a bug like this earlier, but it has been solved since at least version 0.9 I belive (the array with ruins are randomized during setup before they are proccessed) . Are you sure that you have seen this behavior recently?

Interesting number. How did that come about as opposed to say using a more obvious 50%.

Just some old code with a random number that we modified previously, so it turned out to be 44% now that I checked the code