Warbaron's Cup 2013

[Igor]

Round 3 has been planned as 4 groups of 4 players, so each player will have 3 games.
If to choose 2 different maps, how to split them between 3 games?

[KGB]

I think you meant Round 2.

Use 3 maps instead of 2. Each game takes place on a different map so everyone has 1 game on each map. Who you play on what map shouldn't matter.

KGB

[Igor]

Round 2, sure.
I tried to show you a problem of 2 default map. But now you say there ought to be 3 of them.

In 1st round we have very many maps, as many as players can offer (limited with 15-20 turns long).
May be this is good option from 1st round when players can offer other maps than default one.

[KGB]

Since you set up every game in round 1 it appears every game is being played on the High Seas Combat map. Did any game take place on any other map? I didn't even know it was possible to change the map because when I entered all my games the map was already selected.

I am hoping you will set up all the round 2 games as well since that really got things organized much better than waiting for players to do it themselves (which might have added an extra week to pick maps). This time use 3 maps this time instead of 1 and make sure each player plays 1 game on each map.

KGB

[Chazar]

I actually like it that all games of one round are played on the same map. It makes it easy to compare the games. The replays then allow a good comparison between the play styles. None of my games are the same, quite different approaches, actually, which I find very interesting.

However, it is good that players may decide upon a different map if they both agree.

To make this feasible, I would suggest for the next tournament that at the time of sign up (which may probably done through a dedicated webpage if I interpreted the devs correctly), each player may specify up to 3 maps. If two players are matched with overlapping map choices, then another map is choosen, otherwise, the default is used.

[Igor]

Since you set up every game in round 1 it appears every game is being played on the High Seas Combat map. Did any game take place on any other map? I didn't even know it was possible to change the map because when I entered all my games the map was already selected.

Ouch... I can't agree. When I sent big message to all participant players, before setting of tourney games, I wrote there that every player can choose his own map to play if the opponent will choose the same map. If somebody asked, I would change it.
Just looks like you put not enough attention on this message.
Btw, it's your idea to let players choose different maps in 1st round.
Thing is that nobody wished to choose another map than default one.
So, wasn't my offer of default map good enough?

I am hoping you will set up all the round 2 games as well since that really got things organized much better than waiting for players to do it themselves (which might have added an extra week to pick maps). This time use 3 maps this time instead of 1 and make sure each player plays 1 game on each map.

You might set the games as well. Just I saw all is ready to set and I did it in some hours. I don't mind if you were creating games for 2nd round. But it is not best point for discussion.
What about maps... Let's first of all choose even though one map before to chose others 2.
May be it will be good enough map for all 3 games.
As for me, I needn't different maps. But if players will ask, I could to reload maps for some games.
Only moment that I count good for 2nd round is to choose a map 20-25 turns long, something more than it looks too long to complete.

[KGB]

I actually like it that all games of one round are played on the same map. It makes it easy to compare the games. The replays then allow a good comparison between the play styles. None of my games are the same, quite different approaches, actually, which I find very interesting.

All mine are exactly the same:
1) Conquer the main island, build Sea Serpents in the coastal city.
2) Head directly to the main center island first to start conquering it with initial hero after owning home island.
3) Rush all units in good boats (for speed) toward neutrals and my opponent for rapid expansion/razing. There is no need to leave defenders in any cities but the coastal ones since any fliers can be easily intercepted by boats/serpents.
4) Use Sea Serpents to harass enemy boats/coastal cities.

The only variable is whether I take a Barb or Ranger as 1st hero. I take Barb on decent money start (900+) because I'll get a Ranger on T2/T3 and Ranger otherwise. Your 1st or 2nd hero MUST be a Ranger because of all those L2 ruins in the water and shoreline that can be searched at an incredible pace by a L2/L3 Ranger riding on a Serpent. I often have a L7-L8 Ranger by turn 10-12 after opening 6-7 L2 ruins plus another 4-5 L1 ruins. The gold, allies and item hoard I get from that haul is enough to decide any game that's still close (for example in 1 game I pulled 3 Sea Serpents on turn 4 from a L2 ruin which was HUGE).

This is a pure rush map and building defenses and making long term investments in good units is a waste of time because the game will be over by turn 15. The only good units you get are allies from hero offers and ruins.

Anyway, the problem with using only 1 map is that it gets a bit repetitive playing 4-5 games on it. Especially since a tournament should showcase a players ability to adapt to a variety of maps/playing conditions. Otherwise all we do is crown the best player of 1 map or 1 style. That's why I think we need 3 different maps for round 2 that will force players to adapt to different conditions.

KGB

[Igor]

KGB, good description of the strategy on High Seas Combat map.
Let me copy it to Strategy talk, Key To Success at High Seas Pre-Tournament thread, where tabanli opened discussion of strategy on this map.

Good note that players should show how they are able to play in different conditions before to define the best player.
I think though that it's true for little group of players only far in tourney stages.
1st round is mass round. Here interesting to compare how different players play on the same map (thanks Chazar for posting this).
Second round is not so mass but 16 players is big enough number to keep one-map playing.
Then, when 4 best players will be defined, in 2 semifinals will be time to show how they are able to play on different maps.
I would offer for semifinal matches to make 3 games on different maps.
And for the final match to make 5 games on different maps, and 3 games (or also 5?) for match for 3rd place.

[tabanli]

Since next round will have FAR fewer players and presumably more dedicated players who aren't going to be leaving the site in the middle of the tournament I'd suggest using maps that take longer to finish. I think we need at least 2 different maps so that half your games are on one map and half on another.

1) Colorful Snowflake - Retains a water themed map that we are using now
2) Bullrun OR Battlefield - Adds an open flavored map that provides enough other terrain types to keep things interesting and prevent Horselord from being too dominant.
3) - Half way between Colorful Snowflake and Bullrun/Battlefield in terms of water/land plus it includes some tougher neutrals to prevent a lone L3 assassin from being 100% able to take any neutral.

KGB

Players agreeing on a different map is not happening. So I think we should pick one of the above maps as a default for the second turn. Mitchuaquan sounds interesting, I don't think anyone has huge experience on this map.

[KGB]

We need more than 1 map. Otherwise the entire tourney will take place on just 3 maps with the majority of games between players on just 2 maps (round 1 and round 2).

It's pretty easy to select 3 maps for round 2 and have each player play 1 game on each map. That means you'll have played on 4 different maps by the end of round 2.

KGB