Ability Points for an L3 Ruin Reward

[tabanli]

I think ability points for an L3 ruin is pretty much useless. Most heroes prime at L4-L5 and if it is opening an L3 ruin, that gotta be very late in the game. I just received points for my L3 ruin search and they are useless. So let's remove them.

[KGB]

They are useless right now because of the way the heroes are. The only heroes realistically capable of opening L3 ruins are Rangers and Paladins. Those 2 heroes max out at L4-6 as you noted. But Assassins, DK's, HL's etc definitely don't max out there and those heroes would benefit enormously from extra points. I often end up with L10 Rangers with like 50 unspent points I wish they could donate to other heroes from all the ruin searching they do or at least have the Sage points be spent on another hero.

When the heroes are re-done in the next version it will hopefully address this issue by giving all heroes way more things to spend points on in mid/late game (for example I think the Paladin should be able to buy strength up to 45 and a 3rd hit letting him reach 55/3 and be a mini-Barb, Ranger should be able to buy a 3rd hit too). That's why I don't want to remove the points.

KGB

[magian]

I agree with both points. Skill/Ability points are useless in level 3s, and quite a few hero classes reach their effective cap at too low a level.

[Chazar]

I agree with KGB: some heroes max out too early.

I also believe that the ranger is too powerful as it is, especially as compared to the rather poor horselord. Reduce the UL from +3 to +2, and she is still a formidable ruin hunter. Increase the Leadership cost by +5, so that it takes a little longer to achieve these ridiculously high leadership. Either would require a few more points. I really like rangers a lot, and I always end up losing if I deliberately try to take other heroes.

[magian]

Chazar, you find the ranger too powerful? She is (to my mind) a utility hero. Very useful, but hardly OP. I suppose it all depends on the map though. If you play on huge forest/swamp maps she will be mighty indeed.

I find the HL both very useful, and problematic to fight against. That huge open bonus makes them great for defending choke points (like bridges). That large stack movement bonus is also really handy.

Reducing the Ranger's UL to 2/point would make her the worst hero in the game.

[KGB]

Reducing the Ranger's UL to 2/point would make her the worst hero in the game.

Huh? You mean the only reason you take the Ranger is because of the 3UL/pt?

I take her for the 100% success rate on L1 ruins, group move +3 at L2 and then I can select warding/leadership as needed. Yes, U like the 3UL/pt but if it went to 2UL and I didn't reach 18 till L4 instead of L3 it would hardly make her useless.

KGB

[magian]

I didn't say the Ranger would be useless, just the worst hero. All the heroes are useful, on some level. The ranger has a bag of situational tools that would still be useful (when you come across the appropriate situation).

Right now she can max out her UL quickly, then move on to intelligence and level up nicely. Allowing her more access to her toolbox of skills. I think a hit on her UL would be a significant nerf.

[KGB]

I'm willing to wager you wouldn't even notice the change given she already starts at 110% and levels up like crazy from all the ruin XP. Especially since I see to find a lot of sages and get extra skill points to increase my UL without leveling up.

If anything I find Rangers above L4 to be useless 50% of my games because they don't have anything to do beyond ruin search given how hard it is to use her specific skills (AA, Warding, Forest/Swamp leadership) esp in the early/mid game vs neutral cities.

It would probably be a good change to reduce how over powered they are in early games as ruin hunters which really hurts the Paladin/HL viability.

KGB

[magian]

If anything I find Rangers above L4 to be useless 50% of my games because they don't have anything to do beyond ruin search given how hard it is to use her specific skills (AA, Warding, Forest/Swamp leadership) esp in the early/mid game vs neutral cities.

Pretty much this. If the ranger's only UL advantage over the Horselord was reduced to 2 points at the start, then I'd likely take a HL as my primary ruin searcher. The Hl is faster, provides better mobility to stacks/other heroes, and has access to a more reliably useful stack bonus.

Slightly back to the topic. What if sages were persistent? Right now they reward the first hero that finds them, and then wander away. But, what if they just set up shop at the ruin, and once found, would offer the benefits of their wisdom to any hero that stopped by (a bit like an old-timer on a park bench).

[Moonknight]

How is the tree development process going mods? I can't wait for that change, I think it'll make for such more dynamic games!