Ability Points for an L3 Ruin Reward

[tabanli]

Hero Tweak

1) All heroes must be maxed at 16 UL except the Paladin. This would prevent long range solo ranger (or other heroes) getting allies from L2 and suddenly smashing your homeland. So 12+2+2 = 16 for Ranger
2) DK should increase maximum movement. I don't know why his personal movement maxes so early, unpopular as it is.

[SnotlinG]

I see some nice ideas here.
Could we summarize/agree on what needs to be done and I´ll go over it with piranha and see what we can change/include?
We have maybe 1-2 weeks before deadline for this.

[KGB]

1) Undead Lore:
- Assassin starts at 8 UL. Now all heroes but Paladin start with even amount of UL (4,6,8,8,10,12).
- All heroes except Paladin increase UL at +2 per point capped at 18.
2) Paladin max Leadership increase to 13.
3) Remove Sage reward from L3 ruin (can rework this in next major update unless you can reward the sage points to all your heroes).
4) Assassin Waterwalk skill to cost 2 points like the Barb. This will slow down the solo Assassin raping the map at L3 with 100% ambush combined with Waterwalk/Flight.
5) DreadKnight max personal movement to 16 same as Paladin.
6) Valkyrie starts with Waterwalk/Flight at L1. They were technically Angels or at least always rode flying horses.

KGB

[magian]

That all sounds pretty good to me. Not sure the Valkyrie needs a boost, but I don't really see the harm.

[SnotlinG]

Thanks for all your feedback!
These are the current planned changes for next version:

Heroes
DK max move increased to 16 from 15
Ranger UL increase changed from 3 to 2 per abilitypoint
Asassin, exoticmovecost increased to 2p/level (waterwalk/fly/lavawalk)
Assassin start at UL increase from 7 to 8
Assassin, Increase UL changed from 3 to 2 per abilitypoint
Paladin, Starting LD changed from 4 to 3
Paladin, increase LD cost 10 points and gives +2 in LD (previous 20p/+3LD)
Paladin, max LD: +11 (previous +10)

Units
Great Archon: Battle 30 (previous 35), negate 12 (previous 15), attackbonus +10 (previous 0), buildtime 4 (previous 5)
Devil: negate aura 5 (previous 8), fear 5 (previous 2), HP 3 (previous 2), build 4 turns (previous 5)

[magian]

Some interesting changes there! The paladin is certainly looking more viable. getting his primary skill boosted for 10 points is a nice touch. 11 still seems fairly low to me, but he might be decent on maps with lots of ruins.

[KGB]

Not sure the Paladin change does much. Weaker at L1, 1 better at L2, same at L3, 2 better at L4, 1 better at L5 but maxed at 11 is probably still too low. Needs to reach 13 at L6 to make him viable for me.

Much more interesting are the changes to the Grand Archon/Devil. The Devil becomes a much more useful unit esp with that 3rd hit and the 5 fear. I think the Grand Archon becomes less useful than it already is especially given how the specialty heroes (Ranger/HL get VERY high leadership skills on their terrain so that the Grand Archon doesn't help much against them). I expect to never see the Grand Archon in games unless someone finds one in a ruin or unless their cost dropped to 1300-1400 range.

KGB

[Chazar]

I agree with KGB, the great archon should retain his high negate: rangers already dominate many games, and there is simply nothing to counter their incredibly high leadership +20 in Forest and Swamp, which is too easily reached as well.

The ranger is fast as well, so if a map allows a ranger to park on forest between turns, it is simply impossible to defend ones homeland against a ranger.

The same is true for the HorseLord.

Either reduce those MaxLeadership a bit, or leave the archon as a last resort beyond mass ambush attempts (which is funny, cause ambush would imply few special units, rather than masses of suicide units as it is here).

Another option could be to turn negate into percentages, like done with warding:
A small archon reduces enemy leadership by a third, a great archon by 66% (or similar values). So an archon does not obliterate weak leadership, and still remains useful against high leadership?

[SnotlinG]

Hello,

Thanks for your feedback once more.
New update on GA:
Great Archon: Battle 30 (previous 35), negate 15 (previous 15), attackbonus +10 (previous 0), buildtime 4 (previous 5)

Another option could be to turn negate into percentages, like done with warding:
A small archon reduces enemy leadership by a third, a great archon by 66% (or similar values). So an archon does not obliterate weak leadership, and still remains useful against high leadership?

This is a good idea that we will look into more for the update coming after this one, together with the hero-changes then. Sounds like it would be good to have all the Negate skills (Unicorn, Barbarian, Archons, Devils) work on % instead the same way as Warding. But we will look more into this a bit later...

[KGB]

Can you also reduce the cost of both Archons. They are too expensive which is one reason they never get made and why they always get pillaged. 800 for the Lesser Archon and 1200 for the Grand Archon is about what they are worth given how very specialized they are.

This is a good idea that we will look into more for the update coming after this one, together with the hero-changes then. Sounds like it would be good to have all the Negate skills (Unicorn, Barbarian, Archons, Devils) work on % instead the same way as Warding. But we will look more into this a bit later...

I second this change. It would also make explaining things in the Wiki *much* easier since they would all work in a consistent manner.

KGB