change 90% rule for neutral cities

[gil]

in 10% of my games i lose my lead heroes in the first 4 turns and the game is lost before i started

please change 90% rule for neutral cities so that if you have more then X% winning chances then maximum possible units lost should also be regulated

[KGB]

please change 90% rule for neutral cities so that if you have more then X% winning chances then maximum possible units lost should also be regulated

It already works like that. That's exactly what the rule does. It regulates losses on both sides (winner and loser).

Many players however are fooled into thinking that 90+% means they should take no / few losses. That's not the case. For example in a battle where its 1 Red Dragon/7 Crows vs 1 Red Dragon the odds may show you winning with 90% but that doesn't mean you are going to only lose 1-2 men. It's very likely that you'll lose all BUT your own Red Dragon.

KGB

[gil]

can you please elaborate here?

if i have in my first turn a lvl 1 barb + 1 spider + 1 HC + 2 li and im trying to kill a spider with +10 walls the winning chances are about 89% is there any type of protection making sure i dont loose it all?

[KGB]

In that battle: Barb/Spider/HC/2LI vs Spider.

There is very little you can do to change the battle. That's because you are only facing 1 enemy unit so order doesn't make as much difference as it can in other battles where you can get AA units against fliers or Ambush units against stronger enemy units.

Your choice in this battle is either:

1) Try to win losing as few men as possible
2) Try to win while maximizing my chance of saving my Hero
3) Try to win while maximizing my chance of saving my Hero/Spider

Depending on what you want to do you either put the Hero/Spider last in the fight order or Spider/Hero first in the fight order.

I tend to go Spider/HC/2LI/Hero to take a good chance at killing the Spider without taking a loss of any armies (which is huge) and if that doesn't happen I maximize my chance of saving my hero.

If you go 2LI/HC/Spider/Hero the combat odds say that there is NO chance for the LI to kill the spider (<10%) so that means you are guaranteed to lose the LI units. The upside is that those losses maximize the chance that the HC/Spider/Hero do kill the spider. In other words by putting LI up front they can't win but they can damage the Spider allowing your other units to finish it off.

KGB

[gil]

i fail to understand why is there any type of protection from losing it all on neutral? this no protection status is actually ending lots of games before they started i think neutral castles should have a role better then 90%

[KGB]

I am still not sure what you are asking for.

If neutrals can't ever win then that means just a single scout can capture any neutral city no matter how well defended. That doesn't make sense.

You need 90+% chance to win to be guaranteed not to lose everything. In order to reach 90% you need good bonuses, good units, lots of units or a combination of all 3 of those things depending on exactly how strong the neutral city is.

Spiders in neutral cities are risky gambles in the early part of the game especially if there is a wall bonus for them. I don't take on those cities unless I have NO other choice.

KGB

[gil]

i am asking for better odds

here is a sample of a rule i think will benefit the game
if you have only 1 unit you only need 50% or more for a sure win
if you have only 2 units you only need 60% or more for a sure win
if you have only 3 units you only need 70% or more for a sure win
if you have only 4 units you only need 80% or more for a sure win
if you have more then 4 normal 90% rule can apply


here is another option for neutral castles
if you have more then 80% you can loose maximum of 1 unit
if you have more then 70% you can loose maximum of 2 unit
if you have more then 60% you can loose maximum of 3 unit
if you have more then 50% you can loose maximum of 4 unit

just need to make sure people dont loose it all when game starts

[KGB]

The problem is that both those ideas would be badly exploited against the neutral cities.

Idea 1: If you always win at 50% then a Barbarian hero would be out of control since at 30/3 he'd be more than 50% in almost every battle there is. Even a single unit like a Giant at 25 strength would auto-capture most cities since it would be 50% against all but the strongest neutrals. Even if you change the %'s a bit it will be easy for a solo Barbarian / Assassin to dominate the neutrals.

Idea 2: A 2v1 battle is >80% (ie 2 spiders beats 1 spider 80% of the time). So you could exploit this by adding 1 scout and guaranteeing that 1 scout is all you ever lose. Even a 3v2 battle is 75% so just a couple of cannon fodder units like scouts/crows up front would guarantee you never lost anything but the scouts/crows.

I understand you hate losing all your units early. No one likes it but I suggest avoiding the stronger neutrals or building better stacks before attacking the stronger neutrals.

Ideally what I'd like to see is the game allow players to select their starting armies from a pool of points with armies costing varying amount of points. So that you could decide whether you wanted a few really strong units, a large number of weak ones, something in between, terrain movement bonus units etc based on the terrain of the map and the nearby neutrals.

KGB

[gil]

ill elaborate a bit more on rule 1
if you have only 1 unit total on the map and this is your last unit you only need 50% or more for a sure win
so if you are willing to sacrifice all your starting units and cancel all production then your barb can win almost all neutral battles

let me try another maybe you'll like it better
if you have lost 50% of all your troops on this fight then you only need 50% or more for a sure win
in this rule you can count units in number of turns
so if you have a barb and 5(1 turn) units left on map you will have to sacrifice 4 (1turn) units to get this protection
and if you have a barb and 1(1 turn) units left on map you will have to sacrifice the barb to get this protection


it's obvious people control of the math system in the game and hold extensive knowledge in map terrain will not need this rule. but the rest of us who group all 5 starting units and attack need protection.

[KGB]

Once again the problem with rule #1 is it can be abused. For example at the start of my turn lets say I have 6 total units, 5 in 1 stack and 1 lone unit. My lone unit is next to a city where I only have about 65% chance to win so I won't attack with it. However if I attack a different city with the 5 stack and lose 4 while capturing it I am down to 2 units. Now I have a 60% chance for an auto-win (2 units left) so my lone unit is now guaranteed a win and gets a 'free' city. That doesn't seem right.

So the number of units can't be used to determine whether you win/lose a battle. Unless it's the number of units at the start of your turn.

KGB