City walls

[kenc80]

What if scouts gave a city +2 view. IE: with a scout on the city walls they can see farther than other units etc. So if you have a scout in your city that would give that city a view bonus.

[SnotlinG]

From Beta4 there will be a third type of temple, which gives bonus to viewradius.

[Zajoman]

KGB,

Yes, Warcraft and Starcraft are a different genre, but these games were first I recall to use large view ranges for units, regardless of genre, and were very successful and it was a pleasure to play them. View ranges were one of the reasons why. Other RTS games of that era had very limiting view ranges. So what I'm trying to say is that larger view range generally improves game play. I don't want every unit to have 15 range now and ruin the scouting part of the game, but maybe something like a global +1 boost to all units.

And, having this conversation, it is typical in such games that once you've scouted an area, say a city with a Scout in it, and then you go away so the city falls into fog of war again, you retain the last seen information - city and unit info. Currently, when you go away, you can view the city info, but the Scout is not displayed and so you cannot see that info.

Now wait a second, you say that when you get your stack blessed in a temple for +2 movement, it's only for the current turn? If yes, then it's really pretty useless, unless map design would have those temples placed directly on main routes, which I don't recall is the current state. I thought it granted the bonus to those unit forever, but only once per game.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

Do we really *need* a 3rd temple type? Or rather a temple that only gives +2 view radius?

I almost never visit a +2 move temple unless it's with a bat or is sitting next to a city/major road because the time taken to visit (say 2 extra turns or 7 map squares there and 7 back) takes 14 turns to make up the lost time at +2 extra move a turn.

I'd be even less likely to visit a +2 view radius temple. That's why I suggested combining both into 1 temple so that it's more worth while to visit for scouting type units + heroes. Also in games not using FOW a +2 view radius temple would be pointless.

Also it saves map makers from having to add yet a 3rd temple type to maps. At least for Beta4.

Zajoman,

The +2 moves is forever for that unit. But as I noted above it can take 10-15 turns to make up for the time taken to walk to the temple unless it's directly in your path.

15 view radius doesn't improve game play in my mind. It just simplifies the game play so that you don't need to concentrate much on scouting because 10 well placed units would uncover virtually the whole map. I could see getting 1 more view radius overall for every unit but not 5 or 10 more view radius. Also as I recall, those maps were much bigger than the 150x100 maps that Warbarons is using.

I do agree that it's annoying that city army info fogs up once you leave. I too wish it showed the last known information so that in games where I take a turn once a week I don't have to write down what is in every neutral I've seen.

KGB

P.S. I'm all for a 3rd temple type but it has to be something really worth while to visit. I can come up with some suggestions if you are looking for some.

[kenc80]

What if, when scouts were in a city, the city got +2 view? Seems logical to me that a scout could give a city that bonus. IE the scout can see farther from the city walls etc etc. Would make for a nice strategic twist on a low value unit.

[Zajoman]

15 view radius doesn't improve game play in my mind. It just simplifies the game play so that you don't need to concentrate much on scouting because 10 well placed units would uncover virtually the whole map. ...not 5 or 10 more view radius.

I never said that. The 15 was just an extreme exaggeration to show that I don't want to ruin the scouting part of the game. What I'm saying is that larger view improves game play. By larger, I mean +1, not +5 or +10.

[SnotlinG]

If we save locations of enemies/Neutrals that are discovered in FOW, would it make most sense to save all of them, or only the ones discovered in cities?

Im a bit concerned it would be a bit annoying to have lots of enemies in the fog, and when you move there they are no longer there, so maybe it would be better to only store enemy troops inside cities, where they are less likely to move around.
What do you guys think?

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

I think I mentioned this in one of our Beta games.

The FOW should not re-fog until the start of your next turn. To prevent seeing enemy units move when it's not your turn you'd only show what was seen at the time you hit 'end turn'. That makes taking screen shots / collaborating with team mates in team games easier.

As far as what's shown in the actual fog itself, don't show units outside cities. That would be both annoying and confusing. Just show the last thing seen in a city itself. Obviously this is really only useful for neutrals since enemy cities are likely to change.

KGB