Ships of various strength and defence

[KGB]

Piranha,

Works for me. That was what was planned for Warlords V and what I think works best/easiest.

One thing to note. I often plot move paths that don't have my armies stopping exactly on a port but rather 1-2 moves into the water to take advantage of the 2 extra moves. So the ship upgrade option should automatically appear if your armies pass over the port into the water because otherwise it's going to be a pain to have to stop exactly at a port to do the upgrade then use your last 2 moves.

I assume the new ships will move faster / be stronger. Any ideas of the stats? Will one be stronger, the other faster? Are you going to have varying movement rates in the water depending on the ship (ie more/less moves on shore vs open water).

KGB

[piranha]

Not sure yet. One is a djonk (chinese ship with sail that resemble a leaf) and the other a galley (ship that slaves row forward).

My idea is the galley can move on shore at the move cost 1 but might not have as much move, perhaps 16 or something. It could be good in channels.

We have graphics for deep water, I gonna try to make snotling add it to the editor, its a bit tricky to make it work but then that could be impossible for the galley, or a risk to sink.

Id prefer the djonk to be the medium ship, perhaps move 18 but same as the current ship otherwise.

The current ship (which is drawn after a galleon) could be changed to something that can't move on shore tiles, but units might not lose any STR.


In some ways I think it would be interesting if the ships were units themselves. Not units that could battle as in W1 but so if two ships go to war the losing ship would either sink or be captured by the enemy and he could split his army on the two ships.
Perhaps the galley could land units anywhere and there would be a ship laying there that someone else could take. But it would require quite a lot of work.

Might also be bad for some reason that I haven't thought about.

[KGB]

Piranha,

Not sure yet. One is a djonk (chinese ship with sail that resemble a leaf) and the other a galley (ship that slaves row forward).

I think you mean what's known in English as a ' Chinese Junk'.

My idea is the galley can move on shore at the move cost 1 but might not have as much move, perhaps 16 or something. It could be good in channels.

In DLR this was called a Barge and it did indeed only have 16 moves. It also restricted maximum strength to 2 when on this boat type.

We have graphics for deep water, I gonna try to make snotling add it to the editor, its a bit tricky to make it work but then that could be impossible for the galley, or a risk to sink.

Awesome. That's exactly what Warlords 5 was going to do. A deeper colored blue to indicate deep (ocean/sea) water. I wouldn't make it impossible for the galley to cross though. Because players might not understand that or figure out until it's too late they got on the wrong boat type. Just make it more expensive in terms of movement points (4) due to the need to be extra cautious about not sinking. I'd hate to have a chance to sink as I don't think players would like that.

Id prefer the djonk to be the medium ship, perhaps move 18 but same as the current ship otherwise.

Agreed. Then I'd make this boat restrict maximum strength to 4.

The current ship (which is drawn after a galleon) could be changed to something that can't move on shore tiles, but units might not lose any STR.

Again I think not being able to travel on shore tiles might confuse players as they may not easily realize there is no valid path to where they want to go with that boat type. It should just be more expensive (3) to travel on shore as there is extra caution needed to avoid beaching the boat. I'd still have a maximum restriction on strength though but let it be 6 (there aren't many land units over 6 anyway).

You'd want to end up with something like:

Code: Select all

Boat         Max Strength      Move      Move Cost (Shore/Shallow/Deep/Lava)
Galley             2            16         1/1/4/6
Junk               4            18         2/1/2/6
Galleon            6            20         3/1/1/6


Assuming lava is considered a liquid terrain (something I hope for) so we can have bridges over lava and it becomes a much harder terrain to cross.

In some ways I think it would be interesting if the ships were units themselves. Not units that could battle as in W1 but so if two ships go to war the losing ship would either sink or be captured by the enemy and he could split his army on the two ships.
Perhaps the galley could land units anywhere and there would be a ship laying there that someone else could take. But it would require quite a lot of work.

Might also be bad for some reason that I haven't thought about.

It would be a lot of work. And if you ever planned on an AI it would make that AI extra hard to deal with. I don't think you should just be able to help yourself to someone else's boat though as they would anchor offshore.

KGB

[piranha]

The table you have there looks like good boat stats.

Lava wont be sailable. Our graphics looks like rock with some cracks and lava gloving inside. So its old lava rather than new pouring lava. If you check some youtube videos of lava that is fluid you probably wouldn't want to ride any sort of ship there espevially not one made of wood . Perhaps a magic elven ship.

Now that we discuss ships I came to think about zeppelins. Might be something in the future to transport any unit in the air.

[SunsetScorpio]

And what are the plans for upgrade? Will it be an upgrade of speed or strength, or number of carried units?

[KGB]

Piranha,

I don't think you want to walk on glowing lava either. Even if it's partially hardened it would still be several hundred degrees in temperature in the near by air. So once you moved a on it for a bit you'd pass out and die. So it's really just part of a fantasy game that you could navigate it on an actual terrain.

Plus when I saw the graphic on the page SnotlinG posted it sure looked like I saw an active volcano with lava flowing from it in the 4x4 large tile hex.

The prime reason for it being a liquid is really just to vary the terrain more for boats. Land already has lots of terrain types (forest,hills,swamp,desert,snow,mountains) while water will now have 3 (shore,shallow,deep). Since it was a boat terrain in DLR with a large movement cost many scenario designers used it to make a 1 square wide ring around a port to indicate a harbor with chains across it or a waterfall in a river etc even though the graphic isn't correct it served the purpose.


SunsetScorpio,

It's an upgrade of speed + maximum strength of units.

KGB

[Pillager]

I'm not a fan of lava boats...so I'm happy.

Actually, I have a picture of my sister (a park ranger in Hawaii) standing on a moving lava flow...she is on a black, hardened area..but there is some glowing stuff in the pic too. I do believe she melted her sneakers slightly.

I'm stoked on the prospect of having some more ship options. Not sure that a junk is the best fit for the theme though. Currently the human units look pretty euro-medieval, and the monsters are mostly Greek/Norse mythological types. Soon Chinese junks will be carrying European knights towards an Aztec pyramid. Can we expect ninjas and samurai in the future? Some folks might like this sort of hodge-podge.. but I think i'd prefer it if you chose a theme/time period for your setting, and didn't stray too far from that.

[Pillager]

Here are some ship types that would better fit the current theme....

Galley...you have this one already, just wanted to mention that they often had rams...a nasty weapon that the others lack.

Longship...these weren't very effective in combat (because they had such low sides), but they were very seaworthy (able to cross the Atlantic)..and could also traverse shallow waters easily.

Cog...the later cogs had forecastles and aft-castles. This gave them a significant combat advantage over the lower-sider ships...but it made them top-heavy and, as a result, not very seaworthy.

Galleons had banks of cannon along the sides, and weren't in use until much later. Since armies are still using catapults, and there are no cannons..having galleons doesn't make much sense.

[KGB]

Galleons had banks of cannon along the sides, and weren't in use until much later. Since armies are still using catapults, and there are no cannons..having galleons doesn't make much sense.

True. But it's very aesthetically pleasing so it should stay

Besides in this world perhaps with Magic, gunpowder was never invented and Galleons are simply fast warships with Ballista's instead of cannons.

I'm personally OK with mixing themes. After all Warbarons takes place in a magical mythical world and who is to say that in that world that those themes aren't more closely co-located in terms of a timeline/physical location than they are on earth. We know medieval era Europeans visited the New World and Asia. In modern times we have the example of the Polish army still using Cavalry in WWII as German tanks rolled across their country.

KGB

[Pillager]

I don't think that having a consistent theme will alienate any potential players. Conversely, throwing several themes together in a haphazard fashion will rub some gamers the wrong way.