Outlands Balance [4.0] is submitted for review.

[zillusion]

New map: Outlands Balance [4.0] by zillusion.
Map editor link: Outlands Balance [4.0]

[KGB]

Zillusion,

Can you outline the major changes you made. Other than a bit of desert turning into grass near the Orange capitol it doesn't look like anything significant changed.

KGB

[Moonknight]

Looks like some changes in the Southeast...

[zillusion]

In southeast: wolf city --> serpent
-some more road
-a new bridge
-a new, but inconvenient temple
-a new port
-a new level 1 ruins
-a little less mountains to speed up flyers (but still need to fly)

In southwest
-a little less mountains to make more vulnerable to sneak attack from air
-a need to go through hill to slow early expansion

In south
-more hills to give dwarf travel option
-fewer mountains to speed air units

In northeast
-UL temple to balance the one is southwest


Suggestions for additional changes are welcome. My goal is to make it balanced for all starting positions (set to random) for
1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 2v2v2

[zillusion]

In southeast: wolf city --> serpent
-some more road
-a new bridge
-a new, but inconvenient temple
-a new port
-a new level 1 ruins
-a little less mountains to speed up flyers (but still need to fly) ===

In southwest
-a little less mountains to make more vulnerable to sneak attack from air
-a need to go through hill to slow early expansion ===

In south
-more hills to give dwarf travel option
-fewer mountains to speed air units

In northeast
-UL temple to balance the one is southwest ===


Suggestions for additional changes are welcome. My goal is to make it balanced for all starting positions (set to random) for
1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 2v2v2

[zillusion]

(the comment feature doesn't preserve the spacing I used to try to make the changes easier to skim through, so I added === between sections, but it's not as good as being able to control the space)

[KGB]

I think it's impossible to balance this for random 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 2v2v2 setup.

For example if the 1v1 start is Orange vs Red then the Red player is lost because they are immediately pinned. So 1v1 must have set start spots (you can have multiple 1v1 such as Red-Black, White-Orange, Teal-Green for variety)

For 2v2 I think Green/Orange vs Black/White (early fighting) OR Black/Green vs Red/Teal (later fighting) is pretty much all you have. Other setups end up with the sides too far apart so that 2 guys are fighting early while 2 are not.

I have never seen a good 3v3 setup. The problem is always Red/Teal are on opposite teams and spend half the game trying to reach each other or another enemy while Green/Black and Orange/White are fighting very early.

For 2v2v2 pretty much the only setup is Orange/Red vs Green/Black vs White/Teal

One thing I suggest you do is remove the Kraken production in the Island in the NE. That's just too good of a production to give away especially since it comes with 2 ruins and a gold site. It can only be reached by some sides so it's not fair to the sides that can't get there. If the Kraken is replaced by a Serpect the rest of that island is fine.

KGB

P.S. Another possibility is to release multiple versions of this map with different start spots (like was done with Discworld) designed for different games. So the alternate version could have start spots only for 3v3 play for example.