Hero Revamp

[piranha]

I have removed a lot of bonuses in the new hero revamp. Most individual bonuses are gone and also the terrain based ones. Perhaps some hero will get one of them since I try to diversify the heroes by giving them a bit different bonus options.

I think the original argument that there are too much in the hero screen is true, I thought so when I was adding it but I wanted to test what was useful thats why I wanted to put all type of bonuses in there. I go for command pretty much all the time now and seems like others do the same.
I have tried to come up with some bonuses that are valid choices. Also there is a second point system which will unlock different type of skills to the hero.

I had use for a the individual hill bonus once. All my units but my hero died in the middle of Snotlings territory so I climbed the nearest hill and put all my points in STR hill (+3 or 4 in hill STR). I survived the next turn thanks to it .

Its a fine line to not make heroes too good but still making them important enough to be fun.

I think the main point of beta5 will be about taking a closer look at what can be done with battles and cities.

[KGB]

Piranha,

I have removed a lot of bonuses in the new hero revamp. Most individual bonuses are gone and also the terrain based ones. Perhaps some hero will get one of them since I try to diversify the heroes by giving them a bit different bonus options.

I agree with this. There is no need to allow heroes to select individual combat bonus's in specific terrain. It's just not useful enough to bother cluttering up a menu with.

I also agree with your decision to potentially give a terrain combat bonus to a specific hero. DLR had this feature and an Elven hero for example might get a +2 woods combat bonus.

Also I assume there will be the potential to have terrain combat bonus's on items so that a hero might get a terrain bonus that way too.

I go for command pretty much all the time now and seems like others do the same.

I suspect a lot of that is because the cost/bonus isn't perfectly balanced yet. For example getting +1 move for 7 points is too costly to be worth while. If it was +1 move for 3 points there is a good chance I'd buy a lot of +1 moves because for the 35 points you need to get +1 command I could instead buy +11 move and have my hero going 25+ moves a turn. The same argument goes with the +1 strength bonus.

So once those bonus/costs are balanced better you'll see other choices be made.

Also there is a second point system which will unlock different type of skills to the hero.

I am curious to read the details of how this is going to work compared to just using one point system.

I think the main point of beta5 will be about taking a closer look at what can be done with battles and cities.

So does that mean the whole team concept is going to be working in Beta4? That's great news.

What about other potential victory conditions besides total cities. I've mentioned some of these in another wish list thread like Capture the Flag, Fortress, Battle of the Titans etc.

KGB

[piranha]

Also I assume there will be the potential to have terrain combat bonus's on items so that a hero might get a terrain bonus that way too.

Yes thats right.

So once those bonus/costs are balanced better you'll see other choices be made.

Yes, I think the new selection will be better. Group move should be pretty interesting.

I am curious to read the details of how this is going to work compared to just using one point system.

You get 1 ability point when you level and that point can be invested in pillage, undead lore, pathfinding, intelligence and possibly special movement.

So does that mean the whole team concept is going to be working in Beta4? That's great news.

Yes teams will be in beta4.

No plan for additional victory conditions during beta4 that I know. But it can also be in beta5.

[KGB]

Piranha,

Also I assume there will be the potential to have terrain combat bonus's on items so that a hero might get a terrain bonus that way too.

Yes thats right.

One thing I keep forgetting to ask about is items. Do items contain more than one power?

In DLR, items could have 2 powers A major and minor. It was up to the designer of the item as to whether they got a major, a minor or both. Major powers were things like command bonus, negative stack bonus, group move, speed, flight, invisibility, pathfinding etc. Basically powers that applied to a whole stack. Minor powers were things that only applied to the individual hero like movement, strength, combat terrain bonus, +X gold per city etc.

Group move should be pretty interesting.

Yes. It's a much better balance wise than speed (which doubled movement). Easier to keep in check as you can make progressive increases in group move cost more points.

You get 1 ability point when you level and that point can be invested in pillage, undead lore, pathfinding, intelligence and possibly special movement.

All individual hero skills. I like that it's done that way.

And I take it some cost more than 1 point (special movement) so that you have to save for another level to obtain it.

KGB

[Pillager]

Yes, if 'walk on water' is a one point ability, and applies to the hero's stack... it might be a little too attractive a choice (on most maps).

[Pillager]

I am curious to see what you guys have done with the magic items.

Weapons giving strength bonuses seems fairly obvious. And the example of the bow giving +3 vs flyers seems sensible...but certainly not too powerful.

It seems to me that strength bonuses from weapons should be able to increase a hero's strength beyond the normal maximum (in the same way as a terrain bonus).

I'm still not too sure that a 'warrior' hero (as opposed to a 'general' hero) will be a viable option. And, if strength isn't used in ruin searches..then boosting it is even less desirable... strength adding items may not seem like much of a reward vs allies or gold.

How do you intend to implement armor? Additional wounds? Perhaps a piece of armor could give your hero a chance to deflect a wound (armor 1 would give a 10% chance). This could reduce the brutal risks inherent in the current combat system, and also reduce the terror I feel whenever my lone hero encounters a crow.

[piranha]

I think walk on water and fly will only give the hero that ability. Seems too good otherwise.

Items can have several bonuses on the same item. Any sort of bonus that is currently in the game should be possible. I think there will be items that give the hero +1 HP. But that should be limited to the hero.
Armour will probably give you some defend bonus.

Adding some sort of armour into the battle system could be possible for beta5.

There will only be 3 heroes for beta4, but we want more heroes too.

[Pillager]

I think walk on water and fly will only give the hero that ability. Seems too good otherwise

This seems wise....and more on par with the other abilities.

Items granting an extra hp will be a nice boost for heroes. The +1 wounds stack bonuses in DLR were very powerful...so I can see why you might hesitate to add them in at this stage.

Is there any chance that mapmakers will get to tailor make a set of items for a map? Hardly hugely important, but item creation is fun to mess around with.

More heroes!!! Yes please!

[KGB]

Piranha,

How many more heroes are we talking about? I assume there won't be any more until at least Beta5 or later. Also are you still thinking about a small magic system that would include some spells? I only ask because what I'd like to see done with heroes is to use the proposed Warlords 5 model.

That model was going to work as follows:

At L1 you got a generic hero with standard stats of say 5 strength, 14 moves and +1 command.
At L2, you picked a profession: Warrior/Mage/Priest/Rogue. Based on your profession picked your individual stats were modified. So Mages had their moves increased to say 18 but their strength decrease to 3. Warriors had strength increase to say 7 and their moves decrease to 12. In Warlords 5 there was also a concept of hits other than 2 so hits would also increase/decrease with Warrior types getting more hits and Rogues/Mages getting less etc. You also got changes in the costs of skills (some cost more, some less) based on what you chose as a profession.
At L3, you picked a specialization. Warriors could become a Ranger/Paladin/General/Warrior, Mages could become an Alchemist/Wizard/Summoner/Necromancer, Priests could become Priest/Monk/Shaman/Vampire, Rogues could become Thief/Bard/Barbarian etc. Now your hero got access to even more specialized skills based on your choice. Some heroes got access to certain spells, others to special skills for their specialization etc.

The advantage of this model is you don't have to let players select from 1 of X number of heroes when they are offered. Players get to customize the hero as he levels up and based on their needs at that point in the game. So there is a bit of a role playing feel to it.

You don't necessarily need to support the full 15 heroes types DLR did (and Warlords 5 was going to) but you could support say 8 or 12 (2 or 3 per profession) eventually.

KGB

[piranha]

Not sure about heroes. Just want a couple more but perhaps its a bit early to know. When there is a magic system in place it would be nice with a hero specialized in magic.

We have talked a bit about the magic system but haven't really decided. We have graphics for scrolls so one idea is to use spells that a hero can carry with him and the scroll might work 4 times before its used up. I can think both battle spells and map spells. like teleport a short distance or reveal the FOW on an area. Perhaps fly the entire army for a turn.