tower functionality

[kenc80]

Can anyone concisely explain exactly what the point of a tower is? I always liked them in WarCraft but how do they work here? I dont understand their purpose or functionality

The way I *thought* it worked in W2 was that you could camp out your army and lose a turn of movement for what was a +1 city wall (defense) bonus.

Im confused. Can someone explain why i would use them?

Thanks


Ken

[KGB]

Kenc80,

In Warbarons towers will be like towers were in Warlords I.

They are permanent structures rather than a stack transforming into a tower if it sits a turn in defense mode. They will appear on the map at the start of the game if placed by the map designer or players can build them where needed for a gold cost.

Towers are just like cities in that they have levels of walls from 0-8 providing a defense bonus of 0-3. I believe they also increase the view radius of units in the tower so that you can see further into the fog.

You use them to have a stack that otherwise would be in the open/forest/hills/swamp etc be in a tower for better defense. Presumably you would build towers at key choke points in order to be able to defend better or spot enemy units etc.

KGB

[LPhillips]

Actually, that sounds pretty neat. Much more so than the previous games' towers.

I suggest an interface display that allows the player to see what he or she gets for upgrading the tower.

So if it's a level 1 tower (or tower with level 1 walls, however you like to put it), and the option is to improve the tower to level 2, it should have the benefit in parentheses or at least displayed.

Improve to level 2 (+1 defense)

then

Improve to level 3 (+1 view)

etc.

[kenc80]

interesting. so i could conceivably run a scout or a bat up to a nice viewpoint and setup a tower to really watch say a high mountain pass or something. And the enemy wouldnt know who or how many were in the tower at that point without attacking. likewise I could block a chokepoint with a strong army effectively sealing a route from enemy attack. IE the southeastern mountain pass at Bull Run. Thus forcing attackers to pass the dragon castle to the west. This does have some applicability I see. Thanks for the explanations guys.

[KGB]

Kenc80,

I believe you'll always know how many men are in the tower (in your bat example) just as you always know how many men are in a city. Until such time as the game supports 'hidden armies in cities/towers' like DLR this will always be the case.

The second use (blocking a narrow pass) is definitely one use of a tower assuming it's allowed (I suggested it might make sense to only allow towers in spots where there was 1 land passable square all around the tower to prevent your exact scenario or blocking ports/temples/bridges etc).

Another similar use would be blocking a road that passes in the middle of the swamp/forest/hills/lava etc forcing and enemy to pass through inhospitable terrain rather along the road.

KGB

[piranha]

Actually I think armies will be hidden in towers.

Also I don't think the tower will increase your view radius (this can be changed).

So you can have an empty tower to just fool the enemy and they can be placed anywhere except on bridges and buildings. They can be used to seal of a part of the map. Perhaps there should be some sort of untowerable terrain if there is to be a passage where its too good to build a tower but you want a normal army to be used to block.

[KGB]

Piranha,

Towers should definitely increase view radius. That gives them value for when enemy units aren't near by. So you'd get:

Code: Select all

Wall Level     View     Defend
      0          0         0
      1          0         0
      2         +1         0
      3         +1        +1
      4         +2        +1
      5         +3        +1
      6         +3        +2
      7         +4        +2
      8         +4        +3


Now you get either a view or a defense bonus everywhere from L2 to L8 which are the important wall levels. This gives players reasons to increase the wall level of towers in key spots. Note that the view bonus is added to the best unit in the tower. So a dragon with +6 view in a tower with L7 walls would have an 11 view radius.

Interesting that towers will hide units but cities won't. Why is that?

Also what kind of costs are you planning to have for towers? If they are too cheap the whole map will be towered in. Towers should cost at least 400 gold to build and start at L4 walls (+2 view, +1 defend).

I'd personally like to see a 1 square radius around the tower that must be available for land units to walk on. I don't think blocking up maps is a good thing as it invalidates a lot of maps where players are making narrow passes (Bullrun being an example) or have a narrow pass to a port etc.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

- I think towers will increase viewradius. Still to be implemented though
There will be specific Look-Out towers also, non buildable though.

- Costs for towers will most likely increment depending on how many towers you have.

- Also towers will most likely have an upkeep cost, so building too many will be expensive.

- Only certain (most likely infantry units) will be able to build towers

- We are toying with the idea to give the towers diffrent starting values depending on what unit it was built by. For example maybe if it is built by a dwarf it will start with a bith higher wall-level, while built by an elf it starts with viewradius-bonus or something.

- Currently Towers hide units while Cities dont. Maybe this is because its easier to spy on a city than on a guardtower We might change this depending on what feels best for the game though.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

- Costs for towers will most likely increment depending on how many towers you have.

Good.

- Also towers will most likely have an upkeep cost, so building too many will be expensive.
- Only certain (most likely infantry units) will be able to build towers

I think only having certain units be able to build towers is going to confuse players. Not sure the game needs that level of complexity of needing specific units.

Also not sure about the need for an upkeep cost unless you are going to allow a player to self-raze/abandon towers they no longer need/want. Just having to spend gold to build them which gradually should be plenty of cost especially if it's set to start at 400 gold.

- We are toying with the idea to give the towers diffrent starting values depending on what unit it was built by. For example maybe if it is built by a dwarf it will start with a bith higher wall-level, while built by an elf it starts with viewradius-bonus or something.

Interesting idea. But again not sure the game needs that level of complexity based on what unit builds it. I'm worried it's going to take a massive read through of the rules to understand this idea plus the idea only certain units can build towers.

I'd suggest Beta4 just stick with any unit can build a tower and they all start with the same stats.

- Currently Towers hide units while Cities dont. Maybe this is because its easier to spy on a city than on a guardtower We might change this depending on what feels best for the game though.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of hiding units. Just wish it was extended to cities too like DLR had so players would need to sacrifice a unit to see what was in a city/tower.

KGB

[LPhillips]

I have to say that I really like KGB's idea of towers. Just to give my two cents, since few opinions are voiced:

My only disagreement would be with KGB's objection to blocking things with towers: I don't think there is a need to restrict their build locations in order to prevent blocking. As the game is changed, maps will have to be updated to reflect changes. The mapmakers will have to make a decision whether to allow a natural chokepoint that can be blocked by a single tower. An un-buildable terrain type might be nice, or simply allowing the mapmaker to restrict tower building if they so choose. It might be feasible to allow mapmakers to tag a square (non-buildable) so that something shows up in the terrain description.

"This is a road over plains. Roads are the best terrain for travel. (Nothing may be built here)"

I just don't see towers blocking chokepoints as a major balance issue. Flying units are still relevant, and with the changes to heroes a chokepoint is going to be less important than ever. Towers may actually become the only thing elevating chokepoints' strategic value, as heroes gain group fly abilities etc.

Towers can also be captured (right?), so I don't see upkeep as viable. A high starting cost sounds fine, given the alternative of buying excellent units for the cost of a few towers.

Again, as I said: KGB's ideas on this subject are very appealing to me, and I'm fully in line with his point of view except as it relates to towers in chokepoints. Perhaps STR 1 units might be restricted from building towers, to prevent crows and scouts from abusing the ability, but unit-specific tower abilities and restrictions seem like a bad complexity trade-off.