Allies

[Jeremy]

I'm totally with LichKing on this. For full theme, you only want certain types of units able to be produced in certain areas. And that becomes a feature of a city. A mountainous city may only produce Goblins, but it's ABILITY to pay to produce Dragons is a big draw of the town.

This should be an option of course. But you just need two columns next to each unit in the city's list. PRODUCES this unit, and ABLE TO PRODUCE this unit. Then a universal select/unselect all.

I also like the option of 'no pillage' to be built into the map -- although that's a popular tactic by some players, so it would require so play adjustment.

[KGB]

I certainly don't mind if map makers want to spend the time to select which units a city may produce.

My only concern is that you then literally need to go into the map editor as a player and examine every last city so you know which cities can produce what. Otherwise you are at a big disadvantage to those who do know what goes where. So in addition the game would need the ability to allow players 'in game' to click on any city (theirs, neutral, enemy) and see a list of what can be produced there so they know. If Piranha/Snotling would do something like that then I am all for a limited selection list so that the original Warlords I Illuria could be faithfully reproduced.

KGB

[LichKing]

I don't second the idea that players can view city production in-game. It would be sufficient that the mapmaker, when he describes the map in the forum, writes a bit about it, for example: the region of the NW is populated by this kind of creatures and you can expect this kind of production, you can expect to be able to build powerful allies only in capitals or in powerful cities (you usually recognize them also in-game), and things of this kind. Then, already now if you know the map you have an advantage (I go check the map in the map editor sometimes).

[magian]

I'm thinking link each unit type to a specific terrain (just like kraken and water). If that terrain is adjacent to a city, then units linked to that terrain can be built there.

So link dwarves to hills, elves to forest, eagles to mountain, orcs to swamp, dragons to lava?

A mapmaker could adjust what a city could build by surrounding it with certain terrain types. Then, a city's possible production would be visually obvious to players and still allows the mapmaker some control.

[LichKing]

the idea was to give the mapmaker more control, not less...

[KGB]

LichKing,

I don't second the idea that players can view city production in-game.

(I go check the map in the map editor sometimes).

Perhaps what I wrote wasn't clear. I'm not asking to see what units currently can be made in the city in the middle of the game. I'm asking to see what *potentially* can be made in a city during the game. So even though a city may only have Orcs in it, clicking on it may show Orcs, WolfRiders, Spiders, Medusa, Dragon indicating any of those could be made there.

Asking players to look in the map editor to learn what each city can potentially make is silly, a major time waster and gives undue advantage to players who want to spend a lot of time in the editor. I can't ever imagine wanting to play maps where I have to know the cities inside and out unless we are talking about Illuria where I played hundreds of games in Warlords I and know the map cold.

KGB

[LichKing]

Currently from the mapmaker you can't see what can be bought, only what can be produced, so players wouldn't have an advantage by checking the map, only who played the map already would have an advantage. Anyway, I still think it would be a good thing, despite the problems you mention. Most towns in most maps wouldn't be limited in what can be bought, probably only 'theme' maps would do an extensive use of this feature, and the mapmaker could give indications in the map description. Better than nothing

[Jeremy]

Asking players to look in the map editor to learn what each city can potentially make is silly, a major time waster and gives undue advantage to players who want to spend a lot of time in the editor. I can't ever imagine wanting to play maps where I have to know the cities inside and out unless we are talking about Illuria where I played hundreds of games in Warlords I and know the map cold.

KGB

That's a reasonable concern. And yes, that is a downside of the ability to control what cities produce. Nonetheless, even given that very real cost, as a mapmaker, I'd still like the ability to control production.

If there is any way we can mitigate that downside (such as the ability to see what ANY city COULD produce mid-game, that be great. But, to be clear -- it's a cost I'm okay with even if it can't be mitigated.

It's worth pointing out that not all maps are for all types of players. Highly-themed maps may not be for you. Personally, I can't stand completely symetrical maps -- but I know some people love them. And that's okay -- Warbarons can support multiple types of maps and multiple types of players. Particularly because one always chooses what map to play on.

[KGB]

Again, I'm all for this option in the map maker as I like themed maps too.

My only point is that it would also entail the need to add a feature in the game to see what potentially a city can produce. It's not hard to add that, just something that would need to be added.

As far as a description goes, that's great for those that read English/can check the map description. But I've played quite a few players who don't so what would they do?

KGB

[piranha]

Beta5 will feature the first version of triggers and scenario settings. There will be one more game mode. Melee, ladder and scenario. Scenario will be maps that have triggers. In B5 they wont be very advanced but with each new version some new possibilities can be added.

A trigger may triggered by holding a certain position for x number of turns, capture a specific city, kill x number of units etc and when the trigger is fired it can reward the player with units, cities, win the game etc.

The idea you are talking about here, themed sides wont be in beta5 but its a great idea that we should be able to have in b6.