Combat bugs + Vector Bug

[KGB]

1) Vector Bug - Game 4747 (New Big Map Test 2). I was vectoring armies (an Eagle) from my capitol to the central cities (3 turns). Just before an Eagle arrived an opponent captured the central city that the Eagle was going to. So the army was return vectored to my capitol as expected. However before it could get back my capitol was captured and razed. I thought the Eagle was dead. However last turn (turn 20) my Eagle appeared on the Razed city. Which I put to good use razing one of my opponents cities that he probably thought was safe. LOL. Thus it appears vectored armies are returned to Razed cities as if you own them.

2) Combat bug 1 - Game 4898 (Outlandus Decimus). I razed a city last turn in the south of the map. My hero stack remained on the razed city out of moves but with 1 square between himself and the shore line. My opponent was able to use a Kraken in his stack to attack me. Krakens are powerful enough being able to attack shore cities and still deliver a fear bonus of -5. They shouldn't be able to travel over a razed city square (which is land) to attack into another land square (another razed city square). I don't think they should be able to attack onto razed city squares at all.

3) Combat bug 2 - This one is minor. But when you review a battle and hover over your units, you always see the anti-air bonus displayed even if the unit never got to use it. For example in a battle 2 Elves were up front in both stacks. Further back in both stacks were flying units. Both Elves showed +10 strength along with the Anti-air symbol at the bottom of their calculations.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

1) Fixed.

2) Since a Kraken can be used to raze a city, I think it must be able to move on razed cities also, otherwise it could get stuck after razing the city unless it positions itself correctly.
Seacreatures can move at ruins and temples also.

3) I´ll leave this one for piranha

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

1) Quick question on the fix. I assume that now if a unit returns to a razed city it is lost forever. My question is when do you decide whether the unit is lost. On the turn it is scheduled to arrive or when the re-vector happens? I ask because in DLR there was a neat tactic experienced players used which was to vector armies to a city that took say 3-5 turns and then raze it making the opponent think it was simply a razed city and they would leave it unguarded. Then they would quickly rebuild the city the turn before the units were to arrive in order to suddenly have units appear in the rebuilt city. I want to know if this is still possible.

2) I'm don't agree that it should be able to move on a razed city. If you raze a city after attacking it with a Kraken you *must* be right next to the water and thus able to move immediately back on the water. Should you self raze with your Kraken not next to the water you should suffer for your stupidity by having the Kraken trapped on land.

Also I realize that water units can move on temples/ruins as well. Temples make some sense since that's the only way such units can bless. But there is no reason for them moving onto ruins. And why can't they move into lookout towers? Right now players are quickly finding the Kraken to be a VERY powerful unit. So much so that it's making the Medusa into a useless unit:

Medusa - Cost 1200, 3 turns, strength 25, 2 hits, +4 fear (not sure why it got reduced in Beta5)
Kraken - Cost 1000, 3 turns, strength 25, 3 hits, +5 fear (+10 on water/swamp)

Since you can now make Kraken in ANY city, not just coastal ones you can use Kraken instead of Medusa as city defenders at key choke points by vectoring them around. They fight better (1 more hit), have more fear and cost less to build. If the map has water, then they become all that much better than Medusa.

Originally the Kraken was designed as the ultimate sea unit against ships. Which it is. It's ability to raid coastal cities (with Serpents) and transport heroes is also needed. But there is no need to continue to overpower it by letting it move into ruins, across razed cities etc. If those *must* be in the game, make ruins/razed city squares/temples cost 8 movement for the Kraken/Serpent so that it's a major undertaking (which it would be since the Kraken/Serpent would have to drag itself out of the water which is doesn't have to do in cities due to waterfront docks/canals/sewers).

KGB

[SnotlinG]

1) Yes, the check is made when the unit reaches its destination (both target or returning home due to target was unreachable), so if your target city is captured and you manage to recapture it before your vectored units arrives they will still arrive. Likewise if they are returning home. The same is valid if the city is razed and then rebuilt. It can actually be rebuilt/recaptured by a teammate also and the unit in transit will still appeare.

2) True that it should not be able to trap itself unless you do selfraze your own city. However its a bit strange that the ground the unit is standing on is suddenly impossible terrain for that unit. It doesnt make so much sense.
We are currently discussing a nerfing of the Kraken, as it is a bit owerpowered right now. I think move will be decreased as well as the fear (especially on land)

[LPhillips]

Well, you still want it to be the super ship killer, right? I think rather than decreasing move, you can just make its fear bonus for water/swamp terrain only. That would solve all of the balance problems, right? No more vectoring cheap fear units around the map.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

1) Excellent!

2) I think most players grasp the concept that a razed city is different than a city. So I don't see that being hard to understand. As LPhillips mentions, I wouldn't decrease the movement as otherwise they won't be able to catch ships. 20 is fine. Just make land movement (cities/temples) cost more than 2 (say 5). They should not be going into ruins at all. As for the Fear, I'd lower it to +3 on Land (leave as is on water) while at the same time making the Medusa +6 fear in cities (4 elsewhere) to encourage their use over the Kraken on land.

However I would suggest lowering the Sea Serpent moves from 30 to 25. Those guys just race around the map at high speeds, faster than any other unit. I'd also consider lowering the view range for Kraken/Serpents to 1 or 2. They are typically swimming under the water so their view would be quite small compared to a boat that has a mast.

KGB