I guess I do not understand the rules.

[Argammon]

I just fought a battle and don't understand the numbers.

A hero stack of mine fought against star's hero stack. His hero stack had +13 command and +20 command vs flying units. Yet, I only found a ring (Narja) that gives +10 command vs air. I wonder where the other +10 command vs air come from.

Or is it that not all items get dropped but some of them vanish? Star had 2 heroes if that matters.

Thanks for the help.

[Moonknight]

This is my guess...the paladin maxes out at +20 command, so therefore against flying units he had +23 command but capped at +20.

[Argammon]

I think I did not make myself clear.

His units fought with a +33 comand bonus (all my units but my hero were fliers). He had +13 command from the hero and additionally +20 command vs fliers.

His light cavalry fought with str 10 + 8 open + 13 hero command + 20 command vs fliers = impressive 51 str !!!

[Argammon]

Screenshot:

[KGB]

Argammon,

Interesting screen shot.

2 possible explanations:

1) Sometimes I have seen the numbers in the screen shot that you showed be wrong. However in the actual battle they were correct. If you replay the battle and then hit the 'i' key (upper right) to see the details of the combat, what were the percentage numbers for the Lt Calv and your Eagle? From that we can figure out if the Lt Calv really fought at 51 or not since we know your Eagle fought at 14.

2) There may be a bug where the ring was counted twice, once for each of his heroes so that he ended up with +20 Anti-Air instead of +10.

KGB

[Argammon]

KGB,

here is the log (without ambush rolls):

Battle roll:36
Attacker chance:(13.53%)
Defender chance:(86.47%)
Attackers: Eagle is injured

Battle roll:15
Attacker chance:(13.53%)
Defender chance:(86.47%)
Attackers: Eagle is slayed

Ambush roll:
Attacker: Eagle rolls 62 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:84
Attacker chance:(13.53%)
Defender chance:(86.47%)
Attackers: Eagle is injured

Battle roll:5
Attacker chance:(13.53%)
Defender chance:(86.47%)
Attackers: Eagle is slayed

Ambush roll:
Attacker: Demon rolls 13 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:98
Attacker chance:(55.01%)
Defender chance:(44.99%)
Defenders: LightCavalry is injured

Battle roll:57
Attacker chance:(55.01%)
Defender chance:(44.99%)
Defenders: LightCavalry is slayed

Ambush roll:
Defender: Eagle rolls 14 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:43
Attacker chance:(37.46%)
Defender chance:(62.54%)
Attackers: Demon is injured

Battle roll:88
Attacker chance:(37.46%)
Defender chance:(62.54%)
Defenders: Eagle is injured

Battle roll:2
Attacker chance:(37.46%)
Defender chance:(62.54%)
Attackers: Demon is slayed

Ambush roll:
Attacker: Demon rolls 42 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:79
Attacker chance:(37.46%)
Defender chance:(62.54%)
Defenders: Eagle is slayed

Ambush roll:
Defender: HeroPaladin rolls 25 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:56
Attacker chance:(42.77%)
Defender chance:(57.23%)
Attackers: Demon is injured

Battle roll:52
Attacker chance:(42.77%)
Defender chance:(57.23%)
Attackers: Demon is slayed

Ambush roll:
Attacker: Demon rolls 61 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:68
Attacker chance:(42.77%)
Defender chance:(57.23%)
Defenders: HeroPaladin is injured

Battle roll:92
Attacker chance:(42.77%)
Defender chance:(57.23%)
Defenders: HeroPaladin is slayed

Ambush roll:
Defender: HeroDreadKnight rolls 96 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:14
Attacker chance:(47.96%)
Defender chance:(52.04%)
Attackers: Demon is injured

Battle roll:2
Attacker chance:(47.96%)
Defender chance:(52.04%)
Attackers: Demon is slayed

Ambush roll:
Attacker: Gryphon rolls 11 (0) Miss!


Battle roll:86
Attacker chance:(20.28%)
Defender chance:(79.72%)
Defenders: HeroDreadKnight is injured

Battle roll:44
Attacker chance:(20.28%)
Defender chance:(79.72%)
Attackers: Gryphon is injured

Battle roll:83
Attacker chance:(20.28%)
Defender chance:(79.72%)
Defenders: HeroDreadKnight is slayed

[Argammon]

I have the feeling that the ring was indeed counted twice.

[KGB]

Yup it was counted twice:

Eagle hit chance 14*49/10000 = .0686
Lt Calv hit chance 51*86/10000 = .4386
Total probability = .4386+.0686=.5072

Chance of Lt Calv hit is .4386/.5072=.8647

I wonder if the ring was originally on one hero and got transferred to the other one and the game thinks it's still on both heroes. Or if it's just double counting due to 2 heroes in the stack.

KGB

[hatchfactory]

Argammon,
2) There may be a bug where the ring was counted twice, once for each of his heroes so that he ended up with +20 Anti-Air instead of +10.

KGB, do you remember 2 Outlands games we played ages ago I think it was beta 4. I was astounded by the anti-fly item you had acquired and why the numbers were so high.

It's the same bug, we reported it a while back before beta 5 was released and SnotlinG replied something like it was too code intensive to be included in the beta 5 update. Consistently (I've seen it in a lot of games) Anti fly items not only get +leadership bonus but against fliers almost double hero leadership +set amount. I'm not going to do all the math with caps etc. (you'd do that better than I) but anti-fly items are all way out of wack and worth getting due to the way the anti fly is calculated.

I will seek out proof and report back.

Alright, heres what I found

Here is the Bow of Icarus (+8 anti-fly), looks as if it's working as it is supposed to.


Now the Ring of Narya (+10 anti-fly) is all wacky and can't make sense of it. As the bonus icons are stacked it appears as if they are calculated differently.

[piranha]

Ok I've looked at this and will explain it (there is a bug and I know we had some discussion about the same bug earlier, and I thought I fixed it back then).

The +20 L anti air is correct since the paladin have leadership 10 and the ring is +10 L antiair.
The +13 Leadership is correct since the paladin have +10 leadership and +3 L defense item.

It's correct that both bonuses are displayed when mouse over since some enemy units are flying and some are land based and when facing a land units +13 should be used and when facing a flying unit +20 should be used.

What is wrong is that both bonuses are applied and not just one of them.
The light Cav should have been battle: 38 instead of 51 against the eagle.

So it's the same bug that was discovered earlier that items with leadership anti air are not working. I'll look into this now for next version and make sure it's not like that.