Randomizer settings

[Chazar]

Is there a way to tell the difference between these random city levels in game?

As far as I understand, one cannot see the unit production of a city before deciding whether or not to pillage it.

So either you have played that map before and have good memory, or you are required to open the map editor and just look up the map's detail. I find the latter pretty tedious, but still important enough to actually do it for each of my games. It would be nice if one could just click on the city and get an indication whether the city is poor or rich, or what not.

Similarly, units with fixed production are known anyway, so why not show the initial production capabilities (not the current actual production capabilities)? One might argue that city X is famous for their Y units, hence it is common knowledge...

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

That works for me with one exception. The Green Dragon isn't good enough to be excluded from the Powerful category. He is basically a fighting unit like a Demon rather than a powerful bonus unit like Archon/Devil/Red Dragon.

Chazar,

I don't think we should get to see the exact production (maybe the game can create a new ability for doing that and give it to the scout unit). You always get to see at least 1 unit (the defender) and that should be plenty to give you a good idea since that's the best unit the city can make.

However I agree that it's a pain in the ass to look in the editor to see which cities are marked as powerful/good/normal/poor. It would be much better if we could tell by looking at the Gold Income level of the city. Something like:

Poor: 5-15 income
Normal: 16-30 income
Good: 31-45 income
Powerful: 46-60 income

This way you can tell immediately what each city is without going to the editor.

KGB

[Chazar]

You always get to see at least 1 unit (the defender) and that should be plenty to give you a good idea since that's the best unit the city can make.

That is untrue, in my limited experience. In ongoing ladder games (pre 0.8) on Illuria, I had several neutral cities defended by weak units that were capable of producing rather strong units.

However, I believe that those were all cities with a fixed set production - I cannot verify that any more, since the current view map of that map shows all cities the same now in v.08.

Otherwise, I agree, one should not see the exact current production, but I never proposed that.

[LPhillips]

I think KGB's point about the cities needing to be roughly equal in gold value is the most important thing. Plundering should always be equal between players, in case one gets spiders on a snow map or such.

[SnotlinG]

Changes implemented:

Poor: 0- 100 goldcost
Normal: 101-550
Good 551 - 1050
Powerful 1051-1800(excluding Red Dragon, Devil & Grand archon)

Poor get 1 unit from poor category
Normal get 1 unit from poor category + 1 unit from normal category
Good get 1 unit from poor category + 1 unit from good category
Powerful get 1 unit from normal category + 1 unit from powerful category

Income and citywalls has also been changed to be a bit more strict with regards to the city´s status (poor/normal/good/powerful)

[SnotlinG]

In ongoing ladder games (pre 0.8) on Illuria, I had several neutral cities defended by weak units that were capable of producing rather strong units.

However, I believe that those were all cities with a fixed set production - I cannot verify that any more, since the current view map of that map shows all cities the same now in v.08.

It sounds strange, by default all cities should be spawned with their strongest unit as defender, regardless if it is random production or pre-set production.
If you see this again please dont end turn and let me know so I can have a look at the game...

[LPhillips]

Snotling, it is possible to manipulate the unit spawned. The last unit counting from left to right is the one spawned. This is not a bad thing; it gives mapmakers control. It could be a bad thing if they don't know how to use it.

[KGB]

I can confirm this.

Start a game on Waterworld.

There Ezras has quite a few cities that production is backwards (Kraken in slot 1, Serpent in slot 2, Lt Inf in slot 3) so that cities end up being guarded by Lt Infantry.

I believe this was a mistake rather than by design because otherwise you are literally handing out really good production/tons of free gold for simply taking a Lt Infantry. So at the moment this map is ruined.

KGB

[LPhillips]

Still a useful feature rather than a bug, if map makers are notified of it in advance.

-LP

[SnotlinG]

Yes you are correct, I had to doublecheck my code, but that is how it works, i.e. it takes the unit most to the right when spawning the guardian unit for a city with specified production.

Its pretty easy to change though, however if you think its a feature rather than a bug I might leave it as it is?
Personally I think it would be better to have it fixed though, so that you in a normal game know that the city is guarded by the best unit it can produce.
If you want it the other way around you can always create a scenariomap, and setup the city with "Spawn with default defender" unchecked, and then add another neutral unit in the city as a startingguardian...
What do you think?