Problem with starting city distribution (?)

[Garesch]

In beta 5 there was an algorithm that spaced starting cities in FFA games far apart, which I'd always seen to work pretty well. In two out the three v 0.8 FFA games I'm in (22225 & 22226), I've been placed very close to an opponent's starting city (red & blue in Illuria, red & black in waterworld). Is the spacing algorithm malfunctioning?

[KGB]

Garesch,

Yes. It was taken out for some reason in Beta6.

I too have asked for it to be put back in because many maps don't define starting spots and you get bad starts like you are describing.

KGB

[Garesch]

I agree KGB! Two players whose starting cities are near each other are at a huge disadvantage in a FFA game. At the best, they'll realize this early on and set up a NAP, which will only limit their expansion options to half of what the other players have. At the worst they'll waste all their effort beating up on each other while the other players are expanding, and ensure their eventual loss. Spreading out starting cities is not so important for team or 1v1 games, but it is absolutely essential in a FFA, allowing games be decided by skill and play rather than by luck in starting city placement. Hey developers, is there any way we can bring back the beta 5 algorithm for spreading out start cities?
-Garesch

[SnotlinG]

Ill look into this again and see what we can come up with...

[SnotlinG]

Ok, I have added back and updated some code to be used by FFA games.
It works pretty much like it did in pre beta5.
This is only active for FFA games though, since the other setups should be specified by the mapcreator

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

Is a 1v1 game considered FFA? What happens if a map creator didn't specify a 1:1 start for their map? For example Illuria or 8 Kingdoms have 8 starting spots. If there isn't a 1:1 start spot defined do we just get the random start spots that can end up with players right next to each other?

I would hope the code runs anytime there isn't a defined start.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

The code only runs for FFA-mode. The reason is that in FFA you have maps where you can play 3-8 people so its extra important that you get an even distribution there.

For 1v1 if you start close to each other its the same for both players. Also, in the mapeditor you need to actively enable 1v1-mode for your map, so hopefully the mapcreator should then take a few seconds consideration if there are 2 starts which should never be randomized at the same time.

[KGB]

SnotlinG,

For 1v1 if you start close to each other its the same for both players.

Except that it's not. Consider the map to be broken down into regions like this:

123
456
789

If one player starts in region 5 and another in region 3 then it's not equal. The player in region 5 has a huge advantage because they cut the other player off from the rest of the map. You want players starting in regions 1-9 or 3-7 or 2-8 or 4-6 which is what your code does.

Also, in the mapeditor you need to actively enable 1v1-mode for your map, so hopefully the mapcreator should then take a few seconds consideration if there are 2 starts which should never be randomized at the same time.

I did not realize you had to enable 1v1 mode to allow a 1v1 game on a map with more than 2 starting spots. Or am I confused here and can I instead just pick FFA mode with only 2 players? I just opened up Illuria (a map I picked at random). Everything is checked as 'on' by default (allowing any variation). But the map creator just left everything as random. I suspect many map creators are doing that too.

KGB

[Garesch]

Thanks SnotlinG for restoring even starting distributions in FFA games!

[KGB]

Coming back to this thread again.

Starting Spots:
123
456
789

I just played a 1v1 on 8 Kingdoms with KenC and the starting spots came out as 1&2. Among the initial units were an Elemental. I went first. On turn 3, my Elemental met his Elemental/Hero and thanks to the +15 attack bonus I killed both: Game over.

By winning on turn 3 I think I set a record for this map that will never be broken unless Wizards become part of the starting units.

Please consider 1v1 games to be FFA's and space out the players accordingly if there are not set starting spots.

KGB