Pathfinding Ability

[Chazar]

Does anyone really use the pathfinding ability on heroes?

You pay the first 3 ability points essentially to free up a spot that is otherwise taken by an easy-to-get scout providing even better pathfinding (since the scout lowers some terrains, e.g. Desert, down to 2 rather than the 3 move cost the hero gets with 3 ability points in pathfinding). The fourth point is not impressive either.
Am I missing something here? Currently I only ever pick Undead Lore or Intelligence. Maybe divine movement if there is a lot of Lava on the map.

Now if pathfinding would go all the way down to a move cost of one, then I might consider spending 4 ability points - but probably not for 5. Of course, pathfinding should then only apply to non-flyers. Otherwise it would be too powerful.

[KGB]

Chazar,

You are missing nothing.

The only 2 secondary skills worth taking are the ones you are already taking (UL, Intelligence). On a Barbarian hero divine movement is also worth it to allow the Barbarian to conquer on his own without the need for fliers.

I've already asked for a big re-work of how heroes spend their points and Piranha has stated that one is in the works for the next version. So until then, keep taking Intelligence for all your heroes with the UL upgrade for whatever hero is your primary ruin searcher.

KGB

[Chazar]

I've already asked for a big re-work of how heroes spend their points and Piranha has stated that one is in the works for the next version.

I am aware of that. However, the discussion on the new heroes has become hard to follow. Therefore I started this new thread to discuss pathfinding on its own.

I think Pathfinding could be made worthwhile, if it eventually reduces movement-cost to 1 for non-fliers. The total cost should be 3 or 4 ability points total (or whatever eventually replaces ability points). What do you say about that?

[KGB]

Chazar,

1 movement might be a bit too good. A Horse Lord for example has +5 group move at L2 so he could have a stack of Spiders moving 17 squares a turn.

So I'd suggest 1 1/2 points (2 points, 1 point, 2 points, 1 point). That's still very useful on non-road terrain. Total cost should be 4 points so that it can't be obtained before level 5.

KGB

[LPhillips]

Movement cost is a tricky thing to mess with. The terrain penalties are a big balancing point on units, and keeping them fixed for all players is pretty darn important. I love features, but we'd be best to avoid something so anarchic. Pathfinding is, indeed, hardly worth taking as it is. Maybe useful if it were a 2- or 3- point skill that reduced all terrains to 2. But then, it IS that on Horse Lord and I still don't use it. Nothing should reduce flier movement, of course.

[Chazar]

Well, 1,5 points seems pretty confusing. Instead, one could just double all existing movement points and cost, and obtain an indentical, but more fine grained system which then allows in-between costs.

However, I don't think 1-point movement everywhere for non-fliers is too powerful. No doubt it is quite powerful, but why can't it be balance by its cost? 4 Ability points, maybe 5, is quite a lot. At the moment, I doubt I would buy it for 5, but I would by it for 4.

[KGB]

However, I don't think 1-point movement everywhere for non-fliers is too powerful. No doubt it is quite powerful, but why can't it be balance by its cost? 4 Ability points, maybe 5, is quite a lot. At the moment, I doubt I would buy it for 5, but I would by it for 4.

4 points to get to 1 movement everywhere would be huge. So huge that it would now be my primary focus.

It would be easy to get a HL hero with his +5 moves and group him with say Hv Calv or Giants. That stack would then move over 20 squares a turn. So you can now move 10 squares, kill some stack and then move 10 squares all the way back to the safety of your city. No enemy would ever be able to get close to your hero to attack back.

Or you put 7 spiders with your HL hero and can move 19 squares (if you save 2 moves). 19 squares on many maps would let you capture/raze maybe 5-6 cities. It would devastate someone.

If you haven't played a game on 'The Waste' I suggest you do so and see how the Sandworms and their 1 movement per sand square dominate that map. If you don't have one in your stack, you literally are a sitting duck and must wait for one.

KGB

[Versace]

I agree that pathfinding is currently useless. Also, I think LPhilips and KGB are absolutely right, movement cost of 1 is way too powerful "The Waste" is indeed a great example. 1,2,1,2 system is too confusing, too much fine tuning makes the game seem overly complicated for beginners I think.

Movement cost of 2 might be worhwhile to pursue if the price is right, as it is lower than you can get with a scout on some terrain. I would not pay much for that though.

I suggest having flying as the highest highest benefit of pathfinding. That is definately worth something and it does not break the game at the same time. At Warlords2 there were items that gave fly and others that gave double movement. The flying item was nice while the double movement was game changing. Some of the most powerful units in the game fly already. Also, slow units like catapults and spiders will just flying slowly, not too scary. And fast wizards will be slowed down by the hero.

[smursh]

I think all these discussions on secondary skills miss the point. They are SECONDARY! They were never supposed to be a major component of the heros power. Pathfinding, plundering are useful if you stack multiple heroes and use 1 to specialise in each skill. For example if you stack a dreadnight with a paladin and the paladin is leveling up his undead lore, you can use the dreadnight for pathfinding. Then you don't need to save a spot in your stack for a scout-it can hold a better combat unit.

The problem with using flyers to speed your stacks is that there are no siege units or fear units that fly. If you want them you need either to use terrain specific units like worms or dwarfs, or scouts.

I don't use this skill much, but on the right map in the right conditions it can still be useful for high level heroes that have no need for additional UL or smarts.

[ptGamer]

I actually bought 4 points of pathfinding before, but only in vs. AI games. I used it so I could fly across mountains at higher speed. I bought it only when I expected to keep two hero in the same stack. It is currently too expansive. Maybe HorseLord should be the only hero that has a pathfinding cap of move cost 3?