Two assasins

[LPhillips]

Here is my overall viewpoint, KGB:
The other powers have counters, while Ambush does not. That is the problem with comparing it with other bonuses spread over many units. So that argument simply can't hold water. Also, Ambush skips the normal application of dice, around which every other game feature is based and balanced. That means that Ambush must always be quite limited in its application. You're comparing apples to oranges there.

Second, it's always nonsensical to compare units and unit applications in a vacuum. No one imagines that piles of Heavy Infantry in a city are really a viable strategy, and you don't see it used successfully (except with Ambush!!) simply because Ambush is not comparable to other group powers.

Anyway, I'd be happy to see the introduction of some further powers later on, like Poisoning. However, it should only work on cities. The ability to hammer a city and weaken it by careful use of unit abilities is nice. The ability to do the same to our already super-fragile hero stacks is not.

[KGB]

LPhillips,

That means that Ambush must always be quite limited in its application.

Your right about that. Hence why I suggested dropping Gp Ambush entirely from Ghosts and increasing the individual value on Orcs/Wolfriders/Ghosts so that only they + Medusa have that power. Then cap the Assassin at 25% Gp Ambush.

Second, it's always nonsensical to compare units and unit applications in a vacuum. No one imagines that piles of Heavy Infantry in a city are really a viable strategy, and you don't see it used successfully (except with Ambush!!) simply because Ambush is not comparable to other group powers

But on the other hand it's not a viable argument to claim that a bunch of Gryphons in a city with a RD getting some Gp Ambush means Ambush is over powered when most of the deaths in a battle like that come from the Gryphon's regular combat not the Ambush. The overpowering problem is the fact that ALL of those things (Gryphon city bonus, RD Morale bonus, Ambush bonus) stack thanks to how cities work so that in order to fight the Gryphon/Dragon combo in a city you need a Gryphon/Dragon combo of your own OR units with Ambush. Because if you think Gryphons/RD+70% Gp Ambush is preventing you from taking a city with your own Gryphons wait till its Gryphon/RD/Devil/Unicorn in there instead and the defender fights at 55+ while your own fight at 33. You'll be wishing it was only Gp Ambush you had to face.

If the stacking in cities was changed (as it should be) then only 1 stack could get the high Gp Ambush with the others would only get a watered down amount (1/4) which is similar to your suggestion but waters down all the bonus's because they all need it.

Anyway, I'd be happy to see the introduction of some further powers later on, like Poisoning. However, it should only work on cities. The ability to hammer a city and weaken it by careful use of unit abilities is nice. The ability to do the same to our already super-fragile hero stacks is not.

Agree it should only work on cities. The most obvious to me would be a Plague power carried by Giant Rats that only worked in cities.

KGB

[KGB]

Also what's wrong with games ending in a stalemate? It hasn't ruined games like Chess or Checkers.

If you don't think you can make progress or don't want to spend the 30-40 turns required to build the units needed to take a highly defended city then offer / accept a draw. There is nothing wrong with that and I've done it a couple of times.

On the other hand sometimes you'll need to spend 40 turns to root someone out. I recall Ken mentioning he spent over 100 turns acquiring the units / items / gold needed to win against MrBofa on Burning Ice. I myself just spent 80 turns to win on Midgard by getting Solo to realize his strategy was wrong and that when you have 60 cities to someone else's 30 you stop trying to take and hold every city one by one and instead just blitz and raze them out until they resign. You can check the results of that here:

http://www.warbarons.com/beta5/game.php ... es=highres

KGB

[LPhillips]

It's the prospect of an indefinite game of staring that bothers me. Chess isn't really comparable for obvious reasons. Here, one has no incentive to make a move, and plenty of incentive to stubbornly drag it out. The other difficulty is that players can enforce a limited stalemate at any location by employing a single trump tactic. It's the static nature of the metagame at the moment that is the problem, not the ultimate end.

Ultimately, this is not Chess and someone will have a long-term advantage. It's just that such a game is utterly boring. There's little opportunity as things are to use wits and tactics.