Need more Sea Units

[all5n]

It seems like we are light on sea units. Would it make sense to add another one turn sea unit, and possibly another higher level sea unit?

Dont know what those would be, but it seems like this would be a favorable expansion path and allow for some more interesting sea encounters.

[KGB]

What would you do with a 1 turn sea unit? It can't travel on land so what value does it have in the game since it will have to be a lot weaker than the 2 turn serpent. Also technically you have infinite sea units since all land units can go on the water in boats / fly.

The 2 sea units we have now fill their roles quite well (sink boats, raid coastal cities, transport heroes) and until such time as there are cities in the water there isn't really any need for more sea only units.

KGB

[all5n]

ok, maybe a bad idea then.

[Negern]

I like the idea. Remember a while back, it was talk about a 1 turn stackable sea unit. So there is hope. Probably wouldn't come in use so often, but neither does many of the other units.

[Chazar]

The role of a 1T sea unit would be:

• to relieve dwarves and pikemen from being the best sailors around: Dwarves attack with 20 strength on water, which makes them the best sailors - doesn't this seem odd to anyone?
• to do the necessary dying for Serpent & Kraken stacks that attack coastal cities (embarked Dwarves cannot attack cities together with serpents).

How about having another 1T land unit, which is truly at home at sea. How about:

Pirate
10 strength
2 hits
+10 on water
+5 on swamp
Movement Special: can disembark from a boat anywhere, not only at ports. Must embark at ports as normal, like any other land unit.

So the pirate is a bit better at sea than dwarves (since it keeps full strength also on the defense), and the pirate can attack coastal cities together with Serpents and Krakens and make these two units less prone to ambush. Note that the Pirate has no move special for swamp movement and actually becomes stranded on swamp (since it would disembark).

Maybe throw in a +2Move on Water, so that the pirate becomes the fastest boat around as well. (And in order to be thematic, dwarves could also suffer from -5 strength bonus on water?)

[KGB]

The role of a 1T sea unit would be:[list][*]to relieve dwarves and pikemen from being the best sailors around: Dwarves attack with 20 strength on water, which makes them the best sailors - doesn't this seem odd to anyone?

Well Dwarves are also the best 1 turn unit in a lot of places that doesn't make sense (Swamps, Snow, Sand etc) by virtue of their +5 attack bonus. The are just about the equal of Elves in the forest and better than all but Pikeman in the open. This is balanced by their huge cost (400) so I don't mind if they fight well on water (assuming you buy a boat upgrade as otherwise they only fight at 15) too.

Pirate
10 strength
2 hits
+10 on water
+5 on swamp
Movement Special: can disembark from a boat anywhere, not only at ports. Must embark at ports as normal, like any other land unit.

This unit would invalidate the Sea Serpent. 1 turn 20 strength vs 2 turns 30 strength means Pirates are better (2 pirates are 61% likely to beat 1 serpent). Then add in the fact they can attack from water and walk on land afterwards makes them a much better choice for raiding coasts / expanding than Sea Serpents unless they are going to cost 300+ gold. This is why making a 1 turn sea unit is so hard.

If I was making a 1 turn Pirate unit I'd go for a totally new skill:
Pirate
10 strength
2 hits
+5 on water
+1 Undead Lore (obviously for searching shipwrecks)
Special skill: Free boat upgrades for the stack (they stole the boat ) or at least a 25% reduction in price per Pirate in the stack so that 4 pirates = free upgrade.
Cost 200.

KGB

[smursh]

I tend to agree with KGB here. Most 1 turn terrain specific give some pathfinding skill. Since water would have no need for pathfinding reducing boat cost seems appropriate. I would also give the unit increased plunder skill, perhaps 50 or 60 since this is really what pirates are known for.

[Chazar]

Most 1 turn terrain specific give some pathfinding skill.

Being able to unload anywhere is a terrain movement special, isn't it?

I think some kind of meat shield for serpents & krakens would be nice to have -- to allow them raiding coastal cities. At the moment this is simply not feasible, since the serpents are too weak when attacking coastal cities, even when supported by a kraken.

[smursh]

The serpents cost/strength is comparable to wolves. A low cost two turn unit should not be super strong for taking cities. The main method for raiding cities with them is the high speed that can get to rear area cities with week defenses.

[KGB]

If you want a meat shield just add some fliers (blessed crows, Eagles, Pegasi, Gryphon, Green Dragon) to the stack. Lots to choose from depending on the kind of stack you want to construct.

KGB